webr55

Very interesting, the Hessian count! I'm wondering however whether the pinback Kriegerehrenzeichen would be on his miniature chain?

Webr55,

You are an astute researcher. You must have a wonderful library of materials...

Thanks. I' only learning from others here!

A question for Rick: Could you look up the original Waldeck citations for Zitzewitz (18.9.17) and Strantz (21.6.18), whether they contain any additional information?

The Berlin address books (1925-43) list two Oberlt aD Zitzewitz:

- Karl, a Reichsbank-Oberinspektor, and

- Herbert, living in the "v. Zitzewitz'sches Haus" - I'm inclined to think it might be him.

Rick Research said:

I had, from a previous owner years ago, a scan of Christ's ribbon bar, which I have NOT been able to relocate.

Howver, I have pencilled in that it was:

EK2 1939, Luftwaffe 12, Luftwaffe 4, Sudeten Medal, Memel Medal, a Rumanian Order (sorry, don't recall), Spanish Military Merit Order X, Spanish 1936-39 Campaign Medal with X.

How about this one?

Amazing!! Where can I find a copy of this RL?

Paul

The title is "Rangliste der deutschen Luftwaffe vom 20.4.1945", published first in 1954. It lists all officers from Hauptmann upwards. HOWEVER, it is only of limited use, because it lists only active flying personnel - in particular, no Flak officers and other branches and no reserve personnel.

He is listed in the 1945 Luftwaffe RL: Oberst i.G. Torsten Christ, seniority 1.3.1943.

Born 03.02.1906 in Munich, died in an accident 13.04.1967.

DKiG as Oberstlt. i.G. on 27.05.1942 as Chef d.Gen.St. VIII. Fliegerkorps.

RK as Oberstlt i.G. on 21.10.1942.

Regards

Chris

Hmm...

I doublechecked it, and I'm not saying it is him, but I found only one (!) suspect with this combination in the 1932 army RL: A certain

Hauptmann Kurt M?ller, #1.1.1923, in the Reichswehrministerium.

There were two Generals Kurt M?ller, but he is none of them. So I don't know what became of that Kurt.

Of course, there are other possibilities, a General with police service, for example.

The DOA 1908/09 lists your Georg (born 17.7.1870 in Neiße) as Hauptmann in der Schutztruppe für DSWA, Windhuk. He has a DSWA medal, PrKO4X and PrZM. This is NOT the Georg Graf Stillfried und Rattonitz whose ribbon bar was stolen from one of our members (Look here).

There is also a Felix Graf Stillfried und Rattonitz, born Neiße 18.8.1871, who is - strangely - Oberleutnant aD, no DSWA medal but a PrKO4X which probably has been earned overseas. Might be your wimp who left the army after that.

There is another one, Waldemar, born Neiße 8.4.1877, PrKO4X and PrZM, who is Oberlt in GGrenReg 3.

Stillfried-RattoNitz - in a minute.

Meanwhile, for later SS-Brigadeführer Hans Bauszus, look at this thread:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8947

Regards

Chris

Very interesting group. He must have been very old in the picture.

It's difficult to comment without a name, maybe you could give a hint for the regiment? (by PM?)

Rick Research said:

These are all original period mistakes that we would reject as

Somebody Bad Screwed Around With This

if we did not have original period evidence that such errors were actually worn.

Yeah, that's the point. Look here: Galland wears his Sudeten medal before his LS decoration - contra regulations.

Found this on ebay. Close-up:

I think we don't yet have a thread dedicated exclusively to photos with mistakes in ribbon/medal bar wear - if there is one, please correct me.

I'm looking especially for idiosyncratic bars in wrong precedence, very strange fashion statements, outfitters' mistakes. Rick has some in the database, but there are probably more out there. Here's my first contribution:

Very interesting! A Red Cross decoration M37-39, not Volkspflege. Should be a doctor.

Is that a dark blue backing?

Chris

Congratulations to Rick and Daniel!

And thanks to Dave for your upload!

That would be an interesting book, what does it mention? All the EK1 and the reasons for award?

Here is the original thread about the book:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19385

And here's another piece of Generalleutnant v. Besser's story, thanks to Dave's upload of Die Ritter des Eisernen Kreuzes in alphabetischer Reihenfolge Heft 2, Feb 1915 ( ). How v. Besser won the EK1 1914 is one of the longest citations in the entire book:

! !

Heinrich Kopp was a CIVIL engineer, not a member of the navy. He is listed in the DOA 1908/09 as living in Berlin, born in Berlin 16.8. (but no year listed!), with PrKO4, Prussian lifesaving medal and - Italian livesaving medal.

Regards

Chris

Hardy, many thanks, Paul PS whats the VA?

That is D.A. II. Kl. -> (Bavarian) long service award 2nd class (for 12 years).

Thanks for the reply. Lukasz Gaszewski lists some Finnish civilian awards, chamber of commerce and the like, on green ribbons:

http://www.medals.lava.pl/fi/fi1.htm

The back. To me, the construction does not look like other Finnish ribbon bars. Looks rather German.

Just got this ribbon bar with what look like Finnish awards. Rick suggested medal of liberty 1st and 2nd class? And what could be #3? A Finnish civilian award? Or a regimental commemorative? Or even a Vasa order?

Yes, but that was not his final rank: Rudolf Großmann made Kapitän zur See (V) # 1.4.1940. The Navy RL 1940 lists him as the ONLY administrative Kapitän zS. He held his job as Administrative Officer on the staff of North Sea Station until 1.07.1942 when he went zV. But he continued as director of the main library in Marineoberkommando Nord until 31.1.1945, when he went aD. Died 10.2.1960.

Wasn't the above photo of Hitler wearing his BO taken during the internment ceremonies at the Ehrentempel on the Koenigsplatz?

That is very well possible, because the building in the background is definitely the "Braunes Haus" in Munich, which became party headquarters in 1930.