webr55

Ah, so that grouping is yours!

It was indeed discussed on that other place about which we have chosen to remain silent here...

... and it was in connection with one of my bars which also has the Messina ribbon. I then tried to find the owner of your bar. It COULD be:

Albert Trenkler

born 20.2.1873, entered Navy 1892, Marine-Stabsing. 22.3.13, aD 13.9.1919 as char. Marine-Oberstabsing.

CO4, OFA1. He was onboard SMS Hertha which was sent for the Messina relief campaign. Don't know about any China assignment, though. And there are some other possibilities, but Trenkler is the only one from the two 1908 Messina crews (Hertha and Victoria Louise) with this combination who definitely got the Oldenburg.

Saxon fad:

Beamtenband crown:

Central Powers devices:

Crowns:

Saxon was taken while Oberleutnant & is (Karl Eberhard) Paul von Mayer (written to his 1914-17 orderly, Heinrich Gr?we)

GERMAN CROSS IN GOLD 17 July 1943

(*** GAP IN RECORD suggests badly wounded and on inactive list-- NOT in May 1944 seniority list, for below see Keilig, 1958!)

Chief of "Special Staff 'T' " (whatever THAT was) at Army High Command (OKH) 27 December 1944

GENERALMAJOR 20 April 1945 #7

And according to may sources, he got an Army Honor Roll Clasp on 7.1.1944.

Other von Epp's Pic

Bonjour Thierry,

could you post a closeup of THAT ribbon bar?

Thanks

Chris

Ah yes, Lammers, sorry. Then I wonder whether he got the cross as a dynastic, post-WW1 award.

He is shown in the 1914 ranklist as Lt. dR in IR 51. No awards.

Errrr, folks, isn't this Josias zu Waldeck-Pyrmont, later SS-Ogruf.?

The same bar, HIDEOUSLY stripped of its devices, cannibalized and totally ruined by BAFF002, and sold as part of a lot:

Just for documenting this unbelievable CRIME here for all time:

The original intact bar sold TO baff002 in December by another seller:

Look, Rick's point is quite simple: What peacetime decorations has he got? What does that imply??

Whoops! yes, I meant the Saxon Ehrenkreuz. Same ribbon with/without swords (first place on the bar). Also matches nicely with the Saxon LSM. It's a gut call, but I do think this is an early bar!

I agree this must be a pre-1914 Saxon Ehrenkreuz w/o X. A senior NCO who also had a pre-1914 Saxon LS. Then he probably was a POW in Africa for the entire war and felt left out, so he added the SWA Veteran piece. The blue ribbon - I think - is either a Prussian DA for members of the Schutztruppe or a TR Treudienst.

I'm not entirely convince that that is an Honor Cross for WW1. The odd style and hooks on the back tend me towards an 1870-1900 era bar. The Honor Cross was certainly an appropriate award for that era.

It certainly has the old style look. Now you mean Saxon Honor Cross or Hindenburg?

So what about this: A Saxon Feldwebel who was in the Schutztruppe in 1914, already had the Saxon Honor Cross and a Saxon DA, then POW, so no EK or other wartime awards. No SWA medal, but felt the need to stick to his SW Veteran piece even after 1934.

AND - wasn't the Schutztruppe eligible for the Prussian DAs? So maybe he already had a Saxon DA pre-1914, and got himself a Prussian IX or XII postwar?

Very strange indeed, and without the 1897 Medal or I would think this was a WW1 home made bar for an old 1870 veteran rather than a Hindenburg Cross (and why no hook on there for that?).

The tricolor is

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3937

Ahhh! An inofficial South-West Africa medal - but when did he go there? Was that medal for WW1 service or for 1904ff.?

So an 1870 veteran, rather? The middle hook broke off at some point, the scan does not show that. And it looks definitely home made.

Back:

This is a strange thing I just got. Seems like a long-serving Saxon NCO with

- a TR long service award?? RAD?? CO medal?? Prussian Reserve??

- a strange ribbon that I can't ID (looks French ) The last green piece of ribbon on the bar apparently is there only for show.

Yes, here is the Nichan Ifthikar in Arthur v. Killinger's bar, after the Hungarian Comm. Medal. Bad scan, I'm afraid, from the Thies auction catalogue.

BTW, the Police President of Hannover will probab;y be an intersting autograph, but all I get is the initial "H."

That is Johann Habben, Polizeipr?sident of Hannover from 1933-36. Replaced by SA-Brigadef?hrer Waldemar Geyer in 1936.

I can`t remember who`s ribbon bar this was....

That is Generalmajor Hans-Richard Lorenz (1879-1968).

He was "Evangelisch" according to the Offizier-Stammliste of Leib-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 8. His father was one Oberverwaltungsgerichtsrath Oskar Hahn and his mother Helene n?e Malotki von Trzebiatowski.

Regards

Glenn

Right, I also have his father as Oberverwaltungsgerichtsrat. Well, he might be converted, but of Jewish descent.

This still doesn't explain why he was ennobled. I wonder whether it's got something to do with his mother's family. There were several Generals Malotki von Trzebiatowski.

And you won't believe this: Apparently - I got this from a somewhat dubious source, but it might be true nevertheless - he was Jewish. Also, he was a member of the DNVP after WW1.

I take it this is Adalbert Flaccus, Saxon Lt. dR in J?gerBtl 12, seniority 23.1.09W, promoted 1916? to Oberlt. dR.? What is known about his further career?

Ah, Claudio!

You got that minutes before I wanted to "buy it now"!