rocketscientist

What do you mean when you say "It's marked with Krasnokamsk."? By the way, from the picture it seems that the mint marks have been pouched twice and superimposed. Am I right? Thanks sergio

j-sk, the III army cross you posted is original, in my opinion.

The most appreciated III army cross is marked "FASSINO - Torino" on the reverse. Another variant, very rare, has a mistake in the sentence on the reverse "RICONOCSENZA". Many unofficial versions are circulating, which not necessarily are fakes, but production of small ateliers. Mine, for instance, is one of those, without markings.

And here the variation "Lorioli"

This is the Medal of the Volunteers of the 1915-1918 War from Sacchini Milano

My Lorioli's version of the Commemorative Medal for the War of 1915-1918, with two campaign bars: 1917 and 1918. No idea whether the bars are original.

Alexey, I just realised that you posted this question back in 2007... I hope you have got confirmations on this badge from other sources, in the meantime!

I am not an expert, but surely this Badge is not the standard issue from Lorioli. It might be from an early lot or pre-production, also considering the clocking of the pin, soon abandoned. I do not think it is a fake, it would have been so simple to copy the correct markings...

I have tried to find other examples of serials where the "4" is engraved with the same style seen on this ORS 104774. I have only found two, but in a more recent range. I would be glad if somebody could find and post more occurrences of such non-othodox engraving. Thanks in advance.

Thank you .....

Talking about fake "пятка", this is one of the best in my collection... I think it is a real reference case.

ehm, the seller told me he would post the order on an Ukrainian forum for collecting opinions, then he sent me a link... I did not spend too much time thinking, I confess! sorry Nick!

Rogi, I think that I made a mistake and started the same discussion in two threads, generating confusion and dispersion of the information. I also showed this order in the "soviet fakes" discussion, receiving comments from Nick. In the meantime, I have received evidence from the seller that the area where the serial is engraved was actually polished, not to change the number but to recover from a previous disaster. Apparently the the family of the veteran or whoever initially sold the award, tried to make it anonymous by scratching away the serial number. This operation remained unfinished but clearly visible, so the next owner tried to clean up the mess. I posted a photo of the corrupted serial in the other thread, still You can see the full discussion on the ukrainian forum http://sammler.ru/index.php?%20act=ST&f=129&t=138766

It is great to learn new things every day! Thank you, Nick!

It was not cheap, but prices for these screwpost base stars are ramping up day after day. Considering the overall status of enamels and medallion for such an early star, I am happy to keep it in my collection.

Nick, you are perfectly right that the serial number is plausible, nevertheless I can tell you that a little bit of abrasion is clearly visible in the area of the serial, especially on the last 4 digits to the right. I have been in contact with the seller today, and he managed to go back in 2008 and find a picture of this medal as it was. In his opinion, somebody wanted to clear the serial number at the moment of giving the order to someone else. The operation was possibly too difficult and remained unfinished, but of course the serial was considerably messed up. In order to recover the situation, the next owner cleaned the area in order to improve the overall appearance of the star's reverse. He sent me the evidence of his explanation, which I would like to show to you.

Don't be surprised if you see this ORS in another post. I have just opened a negotiation with the seller for a take-back and refund, therefore I would prefer to receive your opinions in a dedicated thread rather than here. Thanks for your understanding.

I have got a doubt on the authenticity of this order, and I would like to read your opinions and comments about. Looking at the serial number of this red star 104774, I have the impression to see traces of buffing where the last 4 digits are engraved. It is possible that they have been modified for some reason, correct a mintmark mistake or faked to match an awarding document (no longer available). The calligraphy of the engraving is not the best one, and today I could compare with few other examples in the range, and the "4" are definitely different. Another, even worse possibility would be that the screwpost base is entirely derived from a more recent star, re-serialised to fit within the correct range and drilled to install the screwpost. Elsewhere I have got positive opinions on the originality of the screwpost therefore I would say that the post replacement should not be an option. Please leave your opinions. Thank you Sergio

I suppose I was cheated again... ORS 104774: suspect serial engraving. Also the screwpost might be a recent addition. Opinions welcome.

Still I have some difficulties in taking it as original....

Here is my Volunteer of the Spanish War. No markings. Any comments is welcome. cheers sergio

I have these three inherited from my Grandfather, who was in the Mountain Artillery (how would you say that in English?). A sort of "Alpini" carrying cannons over the mountains with mules (above a certain altitude, without). He fought in AOI (1935-36) and then in Greece during WW2. I can post individual pictures is you are interested.

Depends on what you mean with "combatants who fought and fell under Mussolini". While Mussolini was the Prime Minister of the Italian Government, these soldiers were enlisted in the King's Army, Air Force or Navy (Regio Esercito, Regia Aviazione, Regia Marina) and until September 8,1943 they were not fighting under Mussolini but under the King. Until then, each soldier or assimilated military serviceman was entitled to receive the medal. After the armistice, Mussolini built up his own Army and fought on the Germans' side. Northern Italy was occupied by the Germans (and Mussolini's troops) while the Royal Army was disbanded. The King was able to control only the southern part of Italy with the remaining of the Regio Esercito (and Navy, and AirForce). After the Nation was re-united after the war, the status of "Military Serviceman" was modified, adding the partisans to the Regio Esercito and other military-like organisations participating to the war, of course by the winner's side. Fascists, even if organised both in Military Units and Militia were not considered as part of an "Italian Army" even if most of the enlisted men were of course Italians like the others. I think this is normal after a Civil War.

Obviously not. Mussolini's troops were never recognised as a National Force. The Decreto Legislativo Luogotenenziale 21 Agosto 1945, n.518 defines the status of "Partisan" and the criteria to assimilate them to the military veterans or fallen of war. Their mothers were eligible for the medal.

Giovanni Prini is the sculptor who designed the medal. The other name is the company or more in particular the atelier who got the license for production. The decoration was instituted in 1919 (Regio Decreto n.800) with the name "Distintivo d'Onore per le Madri dei Caduti in Guerra" (Badge of Honor to the Mothers of Fallen in War) specifically intended for the mothers having lost in combat or because of wounds received in combat one or more sons. In 1938 Mussolini extended the rights to the mothers of fallen in AOI (1935-36) and in Spain, in 1940 they were extended to the Expedition in Albania. It was finally extended to WW2 in January 1943 and at that point in time it was renamed Medaglia di Gratitudine Nazionale per le Madri dei Caduti (Medal of the National Gratitude to the Mothers of Fallen). The Italian Republic granted the medal to the mothers of fallen in WW2 with the Decree of the President of the Republic D.P.R. 23/10/1956 n.1672 making reference to the initial institution of 1919: "Alle madri dei militari, militarizzati ed assimilati che, durante la guerra 1940-45, siano caduti sul campo, rimasti dispersi in azioni di guerra, scomparsi in mare, deceduti in seguito a ferite o lesioni prodotte da mezzi bellici durante lo svolgimento di operazioni di guerra o caduti nelle condizioni previste dall'art. 8 del del Decreto Legislativo Luogotenenziale 21 Agosto 1945, n.518 può essere conferita la medaglia di gratitudine nazionale per le madri dei caduti istituita con regio decreto 24 maggio 1919, n. 800" The medal was never supposed to be given to the Widows of soldiers died in combat.