Valter

Megan, very nice orders! Can you show reverse of 1st class? Is it screw back or pin back? Ulsterman, unfortunately there are no known award lists with serial numbers, for any yugoslav orders. maybe, somewhere over the rainbow in some forgotten Belgrade archive... names of awardees were published in official gazette, but w/o s/n, unfortunately. And awarding was far from consequential, relating to s/n. A normal state of affairs for Balkan :rolleyes:

Leigh, a very interesting fotos!! The last one is a kind of mistery, as the guys seem to be too old for reserve officers school! They look late 20's/30's, but cadets should be 18-20, as guys on previous pictures.

Wow, great pictures there!!! Bileća was the only school for reserve officers of infantry. There was also a cavalry reserve off. school, but I'm not sure where, and I don't know if there were more in Kingdom times. In socialist times, there were also reserve officers schools for artillery (Zadar), signals (Belgrade), atomic-biological-chemical defense units (Kruševac), engineers (Karlovac), armor units (??) (Banja Luka), air force (also Zadar) and navy (Split), but I also heard rumors about speical units school in Karlovac. If I missed or messed something, please forgive me. :whistle:

Obverse looks good, but maker's mark M/1 157 (??) on reverse is IMO way too distorted (prolonged). The round metal sheet that holds a pin also looks mishapen (it should fit into the raised circle on the reverse), but that could be also later damage and sloppy repair. RZM stamp also looks too big for the badge; the missing crossbar on Z is not such a problem for me, as there were many variants of this stamp.

The badge in last three pics has a catch/pin assembly and pebbled reverse surface often seen on german "1957" awards. Although many collectors/experts claim that awards of former German allies do not go into 1957 cathegory, as an Act from 1957 regulated only ex-3. reich awards with swastikas, it is known that some producers after WW2 produced "replacements" of WW1 as well as WW2 german allies awards for veterans - the most well known is "1957" Steinhauer & Luck Pour la merite, but they also made some Croat decorations (Zvonimir, i.e.) It is possbile that the later badge is from that production, but we have to know that 1957 awards were not completely official and could be, in many instances, bought by anyone who wanted them.

Swords are for reserve infantry officer's school - and it's quite possible the pic is from Bileća (i served there many years after those guys , proudly wearing the swords just like in Saša's last post). The kingdom used similar collar badge as socialist YU, but not the same. See the difference in the angle and I think kingdom swords were bigger, as the collars were bigger too.

Rick, thank you for explaining this! I really appreciate your help! PS: I'm also looking for Tamara bar... about three years, and since you got a dozen of them in 32 years, it's statistically possible I'll find one soon BTW, which one is rarer - a bar or the badge itself?

Rick, thank you for taking time!!! By carefully reading your previous posts http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11964&hl=tamara&st=20 the general opinion is that Kust produced only enammeled versions. So mine is most likely Meybauer. Regards, Valter

Rick, thank you! I really aprreciate the opinion of world's greatest Tamara expert! And I don't really care for solder repair. Is it Meybauer or Kust?

and finally side view. Thanks in advance for any help!

closer...

medallion detail

any opinions appreciated...

another view...

Let's try to revive this interesting topic! I finally got Tamara order... is it a good one?

Thank you, Stogieman for your input! I'm just trying to eliminate possibilities. These boards (mine) are looking yugoslav, but don't fit any regulatuions.

It could be, but not "official" one. I've never seen (not even in catalogs) "officially" converted screw-back partisan stars to pin-backs (as was common with Bortherhood, Merit to the people or labor orders), and in all these cases "official" conversion was made with different pins and the quality of the work was far better. These scratches (even one arm of the star is abraded considerably) are in my opinion a sign of worksmanship of someone who has some experience (a "professional" pin which is not easily available), but not with orders and decorations - some village /small town juweler or even a locksmith.

the back side... Thanks for looking!

I've been offered these shoulder boards and they should be Yugoslav. But they didn't match any yugoslav references I got, so I though they might be Bulgarian? Any opinions appreciated! Valter

The belt is army, yes (it should have blue backing for air force). Collar badges are good IMHO, musicians wore general-style collar badges on concert uniforms (100% for army, but probably was the same with the navy. Check the stitching and craftsmanship (for collar pathes, shoulder straps, arm patches) - if these are good, it's probably a genuine one. All messed-with uniforms I've seen had sloppy home-made stitching of details.

Very nice piece, Anatoly! This is most likely private-made modification. Perhaps the owner didnt' want to puncture uniform/suit and made it to a pin by jeweler.

I have seen this item before, but I don't have any pics for reference, unfortunately. It is not an official decoration, "uspomena" means memory but also souvenir. It was probably given to all attendants on some 30 years of victory celebration, or sold there as souvenir. Due to VERY low quality it was made by some local maker with little experience in medal making (quite often that kind of stuff was made in workshops for invalids or mentaly retarded). The ring soldered to medal could also be repaired. Regards, valter

Hello Wlodzimierz, it is a bit confusing, yes There are two different "spomenica's" (Spomenica means a memorial sign or document, but also an (usually written) proclamation of an important event, official statement...) the first is "Partizanska spomenica 1941". That's a badge, decoration (although not oficially in the sistem of state awards (orders and decorations)) and this gets only to those who were partisans since 1941. With this spomenica, there's also certain formal documents (booklets). I don't have one, so I can't show the picture, but there are two documents on e-bay http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120413734526&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT one is late-yugoslav period (late 80's) and the other is post- SFRJ period, from Federal republic of Yugoslavia. There are many variatouns of these documents. This type of document was a proof for the Spomenica bearers rights and privileges (also for the families). How to get Spomenica 1941 is a long story . For new (yugoslav) type of spomenica's, it had to be proven that one was a partisan or resistance member since 1941 (yes, spomenica was not only for fighters in woods, but also for some armed members of resistance on the occupied territory), usually with 2 or 3 witnesses. There were some cases of abuse and unjustice, but not many and therefore Spomenica 1941 was (and still is, among those who still respect anti-faschist resistance) very highly respected decoration. There were some cases of injustice that someone, who had to get one, didn't get it due to some post-war political reason (or only personal dislike by some prominent politician), and vice versa - there were people who got it but were nowhere near resistance in 1941 (an anecdote says there was a guy in Montenegro who got spomenica 1941 despite he was born in 1948!). Spomenica for the fallen/victims of fascism (a decorative paper document as shown in this thread) is something completely different and nothing directly connected with Spomenica 1941. As I explaned before, this document was given to families of fallen/dead, no matter where/when they ended their lives. If you need more information, I can try to find some legal resources. The book you're looking for is long out of print, but maybe I can help (send me PM) regards, Valter

Are there really fakes of bravery medals - yugoslav type?! This seems ridiculus as there are tones of original ones and those without ribbon/suspension can be found in heaps for a couple of euros a piece. Some guys saved hundreds of unfinished ones (= without ribbons) from scarp metal depot.

Wlodzimierz, it would be great to have a book about documents like Spomenica too, BUT then there are other awards and prizes that don't go into the scheme of official state awards, but are closely linked to war history, like partisan unit's commemorative medals - there are 140+ different ones in Slovenia alone. :speechless:So it might be better to spare something for another book(s)? Regards, Valter