Michael Johnson

I have also run across references to the Indian Grenadiers serving with the I.C.S.C. I wonder if they might have been less likely to have spent time in J-K than the Dogras, and thus no Sainya Seva Medal. Certainly if he was an OR or JCO I would expect a 9 Year Long Service. Yes, I would dearly love to have the full-size group, but I couldn't afford it!

[attachmentid=35255] Here is a miniature group from India, for a serviceman who served in the I.C.S.C. as well. It is interesting because of a number of anomalies: The clasps on the Samanya Seva Medal and Videsh Seva Medal are in English, not Hindi. This might indicate that the recipient was not a native Hindi speaker, perhaps from South India. There was a lot of resentment at the Indian government's attempt to make Hindi the one official language. There is no "Pakistan 1965" clasp to the Samanya Seva Medal. It is probably the "Kutch-Kargil 1965" clasp (see Ed's site Kutch Kargil 1965 for the full-size bar.) The Videsh Seva Medal should have the Lions of Ashoka on the obverse. This one has three waves and what looks like a life preserver - hardly auspicious for the "Overseas" Medal! He also served in the 1965 war with Pakistan (Samar Seva Star and Rakhsha Medal). The I.C.S.C. Medal ends the group.

[attachmentid=35254] Following on from the previous Vietnam thread, here is a plaque to Sgt. G. Bedard, who was serving with the I.C.S.C. M.C.C.D. stands for "Military Component of the Canadian Delegation". Bedard was with the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps, which at this date was Logistics, although the R.C.O.C. badge was worn for some time into the 1970s. I also have several pewter and brass mugs to him: L/Cpl Fort Churchill 1956, two for UNEF, and ends up as a Sergeant at Valcartier in 1972. They show his original service number and his later S.I.N. number. The plaque has the Canadian and Polish flags and the Lions of Ashoka of India, representing the three nations (one western, one communist, one non-aligned) that made up the I.C.S.C.

There were a number of Labour Corps. That in the British Army qualified for the silver British War Medal and the Victory Medal if they served in a theatre of operations. Many of them were transfers from "fighting units" on account of age or health. If I recall, there was a Chinese Labour Corps, a Maltese Labour Corps, an Indian Labour Corps, an Arab and Persian Labour Corps, an Egyptian Labour Corps, an East African Labour Corps, and probably more. The MIC lists about 488,000 recipients.

I was lucky - when my great-uncle died I got his, and his gas mask, and his L?gion d'Honneur.

That's not a Morass, it's the Golden Ho(a)rd(e).

The P1917 was sent over in some numbers for the Home Guard in 1940. It was also used for training in Canada, and I think by the R.C.A.F. as well.

I just checked my copy of the Universal Military Dictionary (1779). It defines a "stand of arms" as "a complete set of arms for one soldier" (emphasis mine). It presumably would consist of musket, bayonet, and probably cartouche and belts. So it could be as few as 40 men. I think, on reflection, that this is probably the correct use here.

Quite a lot out there. Try this Google search. He was not a civilian at the time, or he would not have been eligible for the V.C.

In 1830 we're still talking flintlock muskets. My memory's getting dim after thirty years, but at Old Fort York we piled our Besses in threes, interlocking the ramrods. Later, the Lee-Enfields had a "piling-swivel" (like a sling swivel with the bar cut out, that at least in theory would have allowed multiple rifles to be piled. "which in your case you have not got." Naming of parts

"R.B." stands for The Rifle Brigade. Both the 1st and 2nd Battalions were present. The Rifle Brigade carries battle honours for Alma, Inkerman, and Sebastopol. If I recall correctly (my copy of Gordon is at home) a number of infantry received "Balaklava" although it was primarily (apart from "the thin red line" of 93rd Highlanders) a cavalry action.

I think a better scenario is: TTHUNK!!! "Was ist los? "Ein franzische panzer, Herr Leutnant!" With maybe a German soldier peering through the tall grass, like Arte Johnson used to do on Laugh-in. "Verrry interesting." Maybe the title "Memento Mori".

I agree. I've always like "relics" as a subject (someday I will do my Avro Anson trainer sitting in a Saskatchewan farmyard). My only quibble is how likely would it be for a French tank to sit in a farmhouse for 25 years without someone finding it? More likely would be a new growth forest, perhaps "out of bounds" because of unexploded ordnance. Maybe nose down in a shell hole for a lower profile. There is supposed to be a Canadian tank in Normandy which went into a stream up to the turret ring.

I think TNT might be the culprit Effects of TNT

There is a series of Indian government publications called "Frontier and Overseas Expeditions from India" done at the beginning of the last century. They are regionally based, i.e. all the expeditions against one group of tribes, or one country (Burma). Some of them are available for download www.archive.org. I bought the set in an Indian reprint about 20 years ago. First part is a description of the area and its people (for the next expedition, no doubt), followed by the details of the expeditions. Quite detailed in most cases (number of men from each unit), casualties (not by name). I'm at work now, so I can't tell you which volume you need.

What's the reverse on the Wound Medal? Isn't it the chakhra as well?

The tonal values of my work computer leave something to be desired On my home computer I can see the red stripes.

A very nice group indeed. One small point is that the last medal appears to be the Royal Fleet Reserve Long Service Medal, judging by the ring suspension, and the ribbon on his ribbon bar, but you were given Royal Navy Long Service and Good Conduct Medal ribbon. Easy enough to fix. The other medal he did not apply for is almost certainly the Russian 40th Anniversary of the end of the Second World War (or the Great Patriotic War, as they call it). I mounted up a R.C.N.V.R. group which belonged to one of my father's law partners, and it included that medal. I believe that the Soviet Government awarded it to quite a a few Commonwealth sailors who had been involved in the Murmansk run. This article Murmansk Medal suggests that you may still apply for it. I'm sure it applies equally to Commonwealth sailors, although you would apply to the local Russian Embassy.

I put this one to a retired career Marine who I know from another Forum. Here is his reply: Not conclusive, but it adds some additional points.

OK, so when it comes to drinking we tell our wives we're going to "Ciuc it"?

Kev, see my last to see where to go now. Tyne Cot cemetery and memorial - for my money the one location to bring home the total futility of war. Treasure those medals, they were earned.

Description Medal card of Croucher, Henry Corps Regiment No Rank Army Service Corps M2/055307 Private Army Service Corps M2/055307 Private Date 1914-1920 Catalogue reference WO 372/5 MIC uses a "/" instead of a "-" I don't trust wildcards in some database searches. Kev, from here go to www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline, and click on the link at right WWI Campaign Medals. Using the information we've provided you can purchase copies of the Medal Index Card, which will tell you what medals each man qualified for. If they served before 1916 it will also usually give the date they entered a theatre of war, and which one.

Not difficult. Corporals in the Engineers named Martin, then I found T838 which tied it all together. It's too easy to make a mistake in a regimental number. I can't explain Vincent's number on the medal, but the discrepancy between the MIC and CWGC is very easy: a 4 was read as a 9 or vice-versa. Easy enough if the roll was handwritten.

Took a little creative searching, but: Description Medal card of Martin, Leslie W Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Engineers T838 Corporal Royal Engineers 540180 Corporal Date 1914-1920 Catalogue reference WO 372/13 And Description Medal card of Vincent, Gordon S Corps Regiment No Rank Yorkshire Light Infantry 23543 Private Yorkshire Light Infantry 23543 Corporal Date 1914-1920 Catalogue reference WO 372/20 No, I can't explain the discrepancy in the number, but the other parameters match. And even more confusing is this CWGC entry: 23593 Gordon Stoodley Vincent And the only Gordon S. Vincent born 1880-1899 is Gordon Stoodley Vincent Also, I'm pretty sure the number is 6th KOYLI, since I have recently been researching William Carney who served in the 6th Bn.

Sepultures de Guerre responded to my request very promptly, but they have no record of any grave within their charge. They point out that this is usually the case where the family re-interred the body in the family plot. Which of course is a lesson in overcoming mindset. For a Commonwealth researcher we tend to start with two assumptions: a. All war dead are in war cemeteries, on war memorials, or have a government headstone if in a private cemetery (although I know of cases in Canada where this is not the case). b. War dead are buried where they died. The French obviously did not have rules similar to Commonwealth War Graves. Repatriating a grave simply meant at most a few hours drive. And if Antonin was buried in a German cemetery, you can see why he was moved. I'm following up with the mairies of Chaponost and Oullins.