Mervyn Mitton

Many 2nd. WW groups that come-in have only the un-named medals - always a cause of some suspicion as records are still sealed and some dealers like to make-up their own interesting groups. LS&GC or, Efficiency are always excellent for verification - and just sometimes, there will be photos and even newspaper articles. This is such a group and the link to the ill-fated Battle Cruiser - H.M.S. Hood - over 38,000 tons and the pride of the British Navy - makes it a rare one. H.M.S. was sent with the battleship Repulse to help in the hunting down of the German battleship - Bismarck. One of her first salvoes hit the stern deck of Hood - which was lightly armoured - and penetrated to some magazines. The resultant explosion led to her sinking very quickly and over 1400 men died. From her complement only three survivors were ever found - one midshipman and two o/r's. To say that her sinking struck a terrible morale blow to the British - Services and civilians - is putting it mildly. The subsequent sinking of Bismarck helped to restore some pride - but, as a small boy of 4 years of age - I can still remember the shocked conversations. P.O. (at end of service Chief Petty Officer) Tom Smith served for two years on HMS HOOD and had a fortunate transfer a few months before her sinking.He went onto serve on many other ships and in most War areas - I understand that at one time he was on HMS Indefatigable - one of the wooden decked aircraft carriers. However, I don't at this stage have his full listing of ships. He died a few years ago at age 84. H.M.S. HOOD

PORTCULLIS - part of Arms for Westminster and the Houses of Parliament

Royal Arms in Centre

Top - City of London Arms

The secondary arms :

The early part of Queen Victoria's Reign (1837 -) was beset by many riots and disturbences. The Industrial Revolutuon was under way - enclosures acts had restricted the rights of ordinary people to graze their animals and more importantly people were leaving the land in great numbers to work in the new factories. A recipe for disaster and one which the agitators took full advantage of. The worst potential disaster was in fact the forerunner of a revolution - The Chartist Riots of the 1848 period. The new Police - from 1829 - were not in suffiecient numbers - or, well organised enough to cope. London was at greatest risk and over a million people were being mobilised to March and bring down organised society. The Duke of Wellington stepped-in and raised over 200,000 Special Constables to defend London. People came forward from many different backgrounds - including senior City people and ordinary tradesmen. There were some battles in Manchester - but, probably because of the determination of Londoners the Chartists 'fizzled' away and the conflict was kept under control. The City of London raised large numbers and their truncheons from this period are painted black - with the red cross of the City on a white background and in the left top quarter an upright dagger. As I said many S.C.'s were Gentlemen in high positions and felt it was their duty. With the truncheon I am showing here - there is more to the story. Halfway down on the reverse are the Royal Arms - post 1837. Right at the bottom is a Portcullis - or raising gate that protected castles. This represents the gate to the old Palace and had come to represent the Borough of Westminster - and, more importantly - The Houses Of Parliament. My interpretation is that after he left the City of London this man became a Member of Parliament. Tipstaffs and truncheons were often carried as marks of authority - and with the Royal Arms this would seem to be the case here. A rare truncheon and the first time I have seen a Special Constable's marked for two distinct services.

Hi - Timo. With 2477 issued it will never be a common medal. Families tend to guard them closely - as indeed they should. There was also an Edward 7th. Visit to Ireland medal - not sure how many of these were issued ? You're picking-up some good material.

Hi - Shams. Hope you are well ? You now that I am no expert on British India uniforms - I just didn't want you to think we are ignoring you. Hopefully one of the experts will be able to double check your observations. Best wishes. Mervyn

Stuart the original question - if I remember - was how and when did modern caps come into existance. I would say - fairly conclusively - that the pictures Brian and I have posted show the old forage caps as forerunners of all later cap variations. The first picture I showed is so similar to a later cap - just a bit 'floppier'. I think later styles derived from these and eventually went back to having a peak - O.K. - now you can tell me why I'm wrong........

Gordon - I will look forward to seeing the model. I will probably post tomorrow a medal group to a man who served on Hood until a few months before it was sunk. He was given a presentation photograph of Hood later in life and was a member of the H.M.S. Hood Association. There is a card signed by the last of the three survivors. I think my man was a CPO before he retired. The Association have their own website and it includes a lot of information. Good luck with the project. Mervyn

Sterling silver content - 925 parts pure silver and 75 parts tin to strengthen.

Kevin - I wonder if that dry cleaning powder would work ?

A little of the height of the shako - but i think it is heading towards a cap ?

Hi - all. A question I've never really thought too much about - I'd always had it in mind that it was around the Boer War. However, I've just looked through Michael Barthorp's book 'British Infantry Uniforms since 1660' and it shows examples of early caps from 1825. I have shown this and one for 1835 - they don't seem to be earlier. What do you think ?

Hi - Paddywhack - I think Brian must have moved your post, he's much more clued-up on these things then I am ! I was interested to see this medal - I have just bought a WW2 group to a CPO in the RFR - he left HMS Hood a few months before she was sunk. I will post under medals tomorrow - I didn't want to put it on now as Darrell has another of his excellently researched posts. However, I have been making some enquiries on the strange medal naming and it seems the RFR had their own weird system. Perhaps my extra post will prompt an old RFR to 'pop' out of the woodwork. About stg 50 to 60 for King's Head - stg 80 for Queen's - but probably worth more for a P.O.

I think ribbons are an increasing field for collectors - although I prefer to see them as part of a medal set. Miniatures are usually reserved for officers and senior NCO's - below that they would have no need of a mess dress - which is what they are worn with. For cleaning - check the ribbons are fast colours by cleaning a small section of the reverse - I would think a little soap and a very little water would improve most of them. Full size ribbons on undress uniform have been worn for a long time - certainly in the Boer War. You wouldn't wear them on a work uniform - but on a walking out tunic. Full dress would be the medals. Hope this helps a little - perhaps someone will have access to the Regs. of those days ? Mervyn

Darrell - another of your brilliantly researched medals - and from a campaign that had long term effects. I was also interested to see Mike's original format - whatever the 'offence' angle, I think it was complicated and the final design more suitable. Well done. Mervyn

Michael - it wasn't only medals that suffered - although on this Forum they are obviously the main importance. The prices actually rose to above their present levels and little old ladies - literally - were queing outside Pinches and other bullion dealers to sell the family silver. There is still a shortage of Georgian silver - bowls, cutlery etc., that were melted at that time.

Eikroy welcome to GMIC. This is not my field - however, many members do have the means to help with research - so please allow a few days.

Paddywhack - I recently did a post on the Lounge warning of the steep rise in gold and silver. There is indeed a need to be concerned that many older issue medals will have a higher scrap value then for the medal. More importanly consider how safe your collection is and make sure you have insurance. Good that you have raised the issue here as I think many collectors are over trusting.

Dave - we often know so little about our members. Should it not be too personal please tell us about your Branch of Service - and a little of your history. I take it you are retired ? Mervyn

Gordy - I don't like to see any question left un-answered - although , I am afraid I can't give you a definitive answer. Fairly obviously it comemmorates the 5oth Anniversary of the founding of the SAS - however, that does not mean it is a medallion struck for the SAS. Looking at the fairly poor quality of the striking - and the material, which seems to simulate the sand of the desert - I would say a privately made one for sale to militaria collectors. I have not seen one previously and hopefully a member will be be able to tell us more ?

Jean-Paul - thanks for this advice notice. I was sorry to learn of his death - he was a great source of help for Ghurka veterans and of course - a very brave man. One of the tragedies of recent years has been the great increase in the price of medals - this has led to some disgraceful acts. I have been told -by many people - that dealers make special trips to Nepal to buy the medals of old veterans - who of course have no idea of prices. Since he has a British lawyer we must hope that his VC Group will go to a National Museum - preferably in Nepal.

The 2nd. Polish Corps numbered over 55,000 men and - I believe - were formed in Iran. Many had been released from captured German army forces and rejoined the British. I would think it quite possible that they moved down through Iraq into Palestine - but, check this on Google. William - please post the other pieces in the collection when you have time - and do a little research. I think our members will be interested.

Dave - I don't think I fully agree with you on this one - certainly RFA, but, I don't think cut-out from a badge. . Probably an arm insignia.