Mervyn Mitton

I didn't know Birmingham was one of the few Forces to wear white summer helmets. Thanks for even more great helmets.

Thanks - Jamie. Collectors should join one of the two Police collectors clubs - one always needs help and if the work has been done, why duplicate it. Do you perhaps know the contact details for them ? I did know the Hants. plate was for a Sgt. - but forgot to put it on - thanks for adding. Mike - the City of London do use the coxcomb helmet. With their min. height of 6 feet (do they still have that requirement?) + the helmet it makes them look very impressive. I remember one of their P.C.'s who was - I think - over 7 feet, he absoluterly 'dwarfed' us, I doubt if anyone ever gave him trouble...

The Garter can be used without it's motto. The quality of this piece is very similar to my King's Messenger - even to the back - although there is no number. There is a High Court position known as The Tipstaff - perhaps this is his badge - Bombay - from E.I.C. days had it's own Court and an English appointed Recorder (or judge). I had a lovely silver tipstaff from 1810 showing all the appointments for Bombay. I think your next move must be to contact The Victoria and Albert Museum. Find the right department and see what they can offer - also, see if the main museum in Bombay can help ?

Leigh made mention of the three different styles of British Police Helmets. Bell top ; Coxcomb ; and Ball top. These are the only patterns approved by the Home Office - who control all aspects of police uniform and equipment. The bell top has been shown in an earlier post by Jamie - but I will put-on the modern Met. Police. All helmets replaced the top hat - which was in use from 1829 - during the 1860's. A gradual change over, as individual forces had to get the approval of their Watch Committees. Only the Met. comes directly under the Home Sec.. The military helmets of the time were based on the German pattern - and we also copied the use of a spike for infantry and a ball top for artillery - the police ball top being a derivation of these. The coxcomb is a little harder to explain and I have always thought it was for ventilation and also, to be different. I expect it was copied from an existing military helmet and it will be good to hear other opinions. Modern helmets sell for about ?50 on the open market ($80) - however, examples such as this Hampshire one with it's attractive helmet plate will be considerably more. Please remember - under the Police Act it is illegal to own present issue police uniform. I would see no problem with items in a collection - no one has ever tried to prosecute me ! - however, if carrying them outside , put in a bag. This could be an interesting project for our Forum - I for one am not up-to-date with all of the present day Forces - could we list all the Forces in Britain - AND - show which pattern of helmet they wear. From what Leigh says this could be useful for future historians.

Jamie - you certainly have some fantastic helmets in your collection. To have both examples in this condition makes me very envious !! I never understand why so few people seem to have an interest in helmets - to me they are so collectable and rare. Thankyou for showing them - are there more police to follow ?? Mervyn

Thomas - you ask for info. of crime statistics for uniformed forces - sorry, I haven't got a clue ! Probably would require a Parliamentary question in the House of Commons to find out. However, from my own experience, I can say that even in the police there are wrongdoers. When I was at Hendon Police College in 1967, they operated a thirteen week training course - you started at class 13 - worked up to Class 1 , had a parade and were then posted to your Division. I think I was in about class 10 and we were having our morning break in the canteen, when in marched the Ch. Supt. accompanied by two RAF police officers. They went straight to the table for class 2 and arrested one of the men. Turned out he was a deserter from the air force - and in under 10 days would have been on the streets. During my time there, one of the classes just ahead of us had a trainee who was always dirty and unkept. Used to go to the toilet many times each day - which aroused suspicion and senior officer' followed him. Turned out he was injecting heroin. The question you have to ask is - what makes them try to join the police ? This is why the British Police maintain the two years probationary period - in my original class of 28 - only 6 of us were still serving at the end ....

That would be a wonderful find - and not so far fetched. Tipstaffs of office were used quite often in India - and this badge has the Garter around and Hermes - the messenger of the gods - as a central motif. Will probably turn out to be for a signals unit. Did you get this idea from the King's Messenger insignia I posted ? Mervyn

Interesting topic, Gordon. The enamel on the badges looks to be a fair quality/ What about the Police now - any chance of some photos ?

Peter - there is an interesting comparison with the first Metropolitan Police. They marched out in 1829 and in 1830 had a strength of approx. 3300 officers and men. Between 1830 and 1838 - 5000 men were sacked and a further 6000 made to resign. Again, it was drunkeness that was mainly responsible for these figures of nearly four times the original force number. Your comment about regretting not buying the medal, is unfortunately something we all learn the 'hard' way. When I was actively collecting I reached the conclusion that money makes itself again - even if it takes time -- but, one-off pieces, are just that and may never be seen again. Twice in the 16 years with the shop, we have had customers come to blows over items each wanted, so buy when you can...

These are an unusual set of Police models. I used to know one of the sales staff for the company that made them - I think it was Stadden's - and he arranged for me to buy these three. They are for Sussex Police - Metropolitan Police and Kent Police. They were made to great detail and hand painted - their purpose being to be given by the Chief Constable or, in the Met. The Commissioner - as a memento to visiting VIP's or High ranking Police. I don't think they were ever for sale. I will show in following pictures the detail around the base of the Kent one.

Following on Helen's splendid carving with the milk or, water holder, I am adding a few more beer pots. I posted a short while ago a good example of a reed woven pot - these are two clay ones. Being quite old they have the good incised decoration - not like the modern ones. They would also have used a woven cover, decorated with beads. I will show them together to give comparative size and separately to show detail.

I always think that these 'odd' items are a direct insight and link to the past - which is what makes our hobby so interesting. Brian - I was trying to read the top of your medal - does it say Royal ? Any ideas on it's origins ?

Hi, Dan. Can't add anything to this splendid collection - would just like to say you have shown items I have never seen - I have learn't a lot. Thankyou.

When I first saw the word Metropolitan, I'm thinking - never seen this before. Then I realised quite a few US cities use the word in their titles. Am I right in thinking this was for Chicago ? Would a uniform policeman actually carry something this small - or, was it intended for Detectives? Don't you call them saps or zaps ? Looks to be of rubber? Strange it was made by a firm called Biffar. To Biff some one in English slang, used to mean to hit them...