Jeff Mc William

Hi All One point that has often intrigued me re the Great War is ; What battles and engagements (if any) took place in the immediate vicinity of the Swiss Border ? Was the war there as intense as on the other parts of the Front...or was it relatively calm ? Were there any massive artillery bombardments and fierce aerial combats here ? And were there any instances of incursions (accidental or otherwise) into Swiss territory ? If so, how did the Swiss monitor or control this edge of the Line ? Hoping someone can clarify these points. Regards Jeff

That's very interesting (and enlightening) thank you gentlemen. I shall have to see if I can get hold of a copy of "Silent Night" Many thanks again for your replies. Jeff

As a point of interest (and perhaps controversy) ; Did the French have a similar truce to that happening along the British Lines ? For obvious reasons perhaps, one would suspect not, although It would be interesting to know. Perhaps someone "out there" can enlighten me. Regards, and a happy Christmas to all. Jeff

Just as a matter of interest ; Is there a list of those killed immediately after 11.00am on the 11th November 1918 ? As I believe there were quite a few on both sides. One paricular incident that springs to mind is that of a German officer who stepped out to meet and shake the hand of some advancing Americans at about Mid-day and was shot dead on the spot because the news had not got through to them ! Also, I am told, there is at least one cemetary in France where the dates have been deliberately altered for those killed after the Armistice in order to disguise the facts. An absolute traversty in my opinion. I wonder...can anyone "out there" elaborate on these observations and perhaps clarify some of the details. Many thanks in advance. Jeff

Yes. Thank you too Gents that is an excellent picture and biography. Incidently my records show that he was not the only Brit to get the German Iron Cross. The other names I have are ; General Sir C.P.B Walker (Franco Prussian War I think) Surgeon J.H.K. Innes ditto General Sir Henry Brakenbury ditto Capt Sir James Lumsden Seaton ditto Col Sir Henry Montague Hozier ditto Mr Eddie Chapman WW2 This last one is the only one I know that was awarded the Nazi decoration. He was apparently a double-agent. Once again thank you very much Gentlemen for a most interesting thread. Regards Jeff

A very interesting thread. Thank you Gentlemen. May I ask if anyone knows where I can obtain some decent colour pics of Surgeon-General George Manley VC.CB. medals. Amoung his numerous awards he had the New Zealand War Medal & Victoria Cross plus the German Franco /Prussian War Medal 1870 and the Iron Cross, a unique combination I believe. Unfortunately the RAMC Museum says it does not have his medals...or even a photograph of them !? Rather curious I think. Can anyone else point me in the right direction ? Many thanks in advance. Jeff

Hi Peter (and everyone) Very many thanks indeed for the fantastic array of pics re this splendid award....and what an amazing variety of types there are ! I had no idea that such a diverse range of designs existed and I must thank you all most sincerely for sharing these excellent images on the Forum. I wonder if I might trouble you with just one further query re this ; Do you know where I might obtain a list of British recipients of this award...particularly those for the Napoleonic Wars era ? Many thanks in advance if you can help. Regards Jeff

Hi Peter Re the Order of the Sword. Please excuse me but I am a little confused here and wonder if you can help: The excellent pics posted by Graf appears to show a neck badge of the Order which I see you have dated as circa 1820 to 1854. The thing that puzzles me is the absence of the additional swords and straps at the side and bottom of the cross as I have seen on other examples (photo attached). Can I ask if this indicates the grade of the Order or is it perhaps another distinction ? Also I have read several different accounts re the various grades, eg one source (Neville) says there were 3 grades, while Dorling says there were 5 !? and I'm afraid I can't understand the Wikipedia definition. I wonder if you could clarify the situation for me if you would be so kind. Very many thanks in advance. Jeff

Hi blueman A fantastic "find" ! I am sure it dates from circa 1800 to 1812 and was worn on the "Stovepipe" shako. Could you possibly give me the dimensions and weight.....particularly the weight. Many thanks in advance. Jeff

Hi blueman. My guess is Royal Scots. The thistle and sprig surround were typically used by this regiment. Regards Jeff

Hi Ralph In my opinion this is a QVC (Queen Victoria's Crown) part of a glengarry badge c.1881-98 worn in conjunction with an HPC (helmet plate centre) on the British Infantry Glengarry cap for this period. In some (very unusual ) cases they were soldered to the HPC. Regards Jeff

last one (5 of 5) : I am still searching for the official docs relating to the "modern" badge patch used by the Middlesex Regt.

4 of 5

3 of 5

2 of 5

Hi, here we go again. The problem seems to be that I am limited to 200K attachments, so hope these docs can be read : (1 of 5)

Hi jf & all Here are some of the "docs" I mentioned (if I can post them sucessfully) : Sorry, having problems with my "downloads"....will have to get back to you later. Regards. Jeff

Hi jf Very many thanks for your excellent and most interesting post re "Red Feathers". Sorry to be so late in responding to this but I have only just found it, tho' I must say I am surprised that no one else has apparently made any comments. I wonder if I might add a couple of "footnotes" which may be of interest to you and any others : (1) Battle of Brandywine 11th Sept 1777 (2) Paoli incident 20th Sept 1777 (3)46th Foot (Lt Coy) Red plumes : The earliest surviving official authority for this appears to be the 1834 edition of "Dress Regulations for the British Army" (4) Little or no mention was made of the Middlesex Regiment "traditional red feathers" mentioned by Maj J.L.Archer c.1888 A diamond shaped patch of red & yellow was worn behind the cap badge c.1920, but was not officially authorised until August 1950. The yellow represented the old facing colour of both the 57th & 77th Foot, and the red (or "claret") to commemorate the 57th Lt.Coy participation at Brandywine & Paoli. (5) The 71st Foot mentioned were in fact "Frasers Highlanders" (disbanded in 1784) not the HLI who later took this number. Any further information anyone has would be greatly appreciated. Regards. Jeff

PS: Hi again Timo With reference to your remarks re the Munsters : As you will see from Churchill, the PT grenades for both the 101F & 104F were plain and in yellow-brass. After 1881, a trial pattern was made for the Munsters with a tiger and upright flames in gilding-metal (more red in colour) but was later rejected. Your grenade appears to be horizontal and in yellow-brass and therefore pre 1881. As ever of course, I could be wrong, but that's my opinion. Lets hope someone else can contribute to this thread to sort things out. Regards. Jeff

Hi Timo Sorry, but from the tenor of your original posts, I had assumed you knew little or nothing about British Army Collar badges, so I just thought I was being helpful. Yes, I must admit, Churchill is a bit confusing on this issue. I see earlier on in the same passage you quoted, when discussing the general introduction of collar badges, he also states ; "It seems improbable that this record is correct..." thus questioning the accuracy of the ACD entries and highlighting the pitfalls one often finds when consulting the official accounts. From my own experience in these matters, I have found that lack of evidence does not necessarily indicate lack of practice,.. in fact often quite the opposite..it merely means that any conclusions one may draw cannot be officially confirmed. And there are many instances of this. As you are no doubt aware, your "long tiger" is also attributed to the 75th Foot, but the grenade badge you posted is not even mentioned in ACD records..but does that mean it didn't exist !? One of the problems here is that there are no drawings or photos appended for these records..just descriptions, some open to interpretation. One is tempted to ask ; "If Churchill was so reticent about these badges, why did he include them ?" The only other references I can give you re PT collar badges are : (1) 3 articles in "Crown Imperial" by P.P.Holder, viz ; No 65 Winter 1991, No 66 Spring 1992, & No 71 Summer 1993. Holder shows your grenade badge which he says is 102nd Foot. (2) J.S.A.H.R Vol XXIX, No 118 Summer 1951. Article by A.R.Cattley. He describes both badges to the 102nd Foot I have also "dabbled" into this subject myself some time ago and indeed was priviledged to see the late, great, Hugh King's collection. But, at the end of the day I can only repeat what these learned gentlemen found during their own intensive researches. Regards Jeff

Hi Timo Yes, that's correct ; Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Prior to 1881 the regiment comprised the 102nd (Royal Madras Fus) & 103rd Foot (Royal Bombay Fus). They were later combined to form the 1st & 2nd Battalions Royal Dublin Fus. It would appear that your tiger badges were also worn on the collars prior to 1881. Collars were introduced in 1871, so it could be that one or other of the two types were adopted first. (the 103rd Foot wore a plain grenade). My source is : "History of the British Army Infantry Collar Badge" by Colin Churchill. pub : The Naval & Military Press 2002. Hope this helps. Jeff

Hi Timo Your badge is an ORs, 102nd Foot (Royal Madras Fusiliers) collar badge 1871 to 1881.Quite scarce. They come in facing pairs, ie there is another with the tiger facing the other way. Regards. Jeff

Hi Jeff Hang on to that ribbon...it could well be original. I havebeen researching this award for some time now and my notes indicate that there were several changes of ribbon throughout the lifetime of this rare decoration, and this included pale blue and white stripes ! I will try and dig out my details for you. In the meantime, do you happen to have a slightly wider shot which shows the ribbon detail more clearly. Regards Jeff

Stuart. Have just got back from viewing and reading your Uniform ID thread. What a fantastic piece of research work you have done on this really obscure and wretchedly damaged portrait. I really cannot add anything to what has already been said except my sincere congratulations on some fine "detective work" and an incredible demonstration of your in-depth background knowledge. My congratulations to the restorer also on an excellent job well done. Sincerely Jeff

Hi Stuart. Yes, (on your badge) Guelphic. As you probably know, many regiments including Artillery, Infantry, Cavalry, Militia, & Yeomanry, used this device on their horse furniture (usually cast brass), viz sabretasches and martingales etc. Invariably these only bore the garter motto "Honi Soit.." etc plus the Royal Cypher (as yours does), so it is very difficult to assign them to any particular regiment. Thankfully tho', some do have a regimental title or a recognisable device also. Getting back to Garth's badge, one thought I had was that, being mounted on a dark green cloth, the "R" could stand for "Rifles" (or maybe just "Regiment") ? A real puzzler, but I think Scottish or foriegn "ex-pat" ?? Regards. Jeff PS. Thanks Stuart, I have not done yet, but will have a look now. J