RobW

Hello Thomas, I don't know who the recipient is, but the combination of awards as well as the two Orders, indicates an officer. The main research problem that faces collectors of vics generally is that only the commonwealth countries had their medals named, although there are examples of US vics with naming details engraved. As the main thread is vic medals of the world this is the only spot for the variety of other vics to reside, and there are just so many different varieties that are all unnamed so there is a tendency to post the items and their varieties. You will also see that there are not a lot of contributors but many watchers on this thread. If you have any commonwealth vics I would post them here and also on the Great Britain thread where it is more easy to research the named individual. You are also correct in identifying that these sort of groups are rarely seen intact anymore. I am currently working on resurrecting a Greek group of 9 that was split apart and individually mounted on a felt board with glue all over the ribbons! What a poor demise for such a group. It may take me a long time to obtain all the required original silk ribbons but it remains a work in progress and it will eventually be re-mounted complete. I have seen dealers that will split a large group if it fails to sell in a rapid time frame and then sell it later for the sum of the parts. Regards, Rob

To all, Thanks to a very helpful collector friend in Greece and a fellow forum member, I have now obtained this very nice group. It is an interesting group because it also includes the Cross of Valor which indicates post-war service in the Asia Minor 1919-1922 conflict between Greece and Turkey, as well an unofficial victory medal. The items, with manufacturing details, include: * Order of the Redeemer, Knight's Cross (Lemaitre) * Cross of Valor, (Godet) * Order of George I, Knight's Cross (R. Souval) * War Cross, 3rd class (Huguenin Frères) * Military Merit Medal 3rd class (Sue-Rivaud, Salonique) * Victory medal, unofficial type 1 (HENRY NOCQ variation) Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, And here is a close-up of that medal. Regards, Rob

Hey Tim, When I have time I shall scour the boxes to look for the item and will post pics when I find it. Regards, Rob

And the mark itself. I am hopeful that someone more knowledgeable can identify this maker. Regards, Rob

And here is the close-up of the reverse. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, I don't have any ideas as to the maker but here is one of my War Commemorative Medals with the same makers mark. It also has an 'Engagé Volontaire' bar as well. Out of all my French medals I find this particular medal quite appealing and such a lovely design. For some reason this strike is much better and definitive than the examples that I have from the Paris Mint, Janvier-Berchot and Arthus Bertrand. Such a simple and elegant design. Close-ups of the reverse and mark itself to follow. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, Late to this party it would seem... Here is another cornucopia mark. This time it is conjunction with the letter 'M' [Monnaie de Paris] on the reverse of an 'Engagé Volontaire' silver bar attached to one of my French War Commemorative Medals, so it would appear that the mint marked more than just their medals. In this picture the bar has been rotated 90 degrees. I hope it adds to the previous items. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, I would add the example from my Greek group of 9 but I see that the pic has already been posted. I also have another Greek group of 6 but it too has the L.Süe (Sculptor) A.A.Rivaud (Designer) Salonique 1917 mark on the reverse. Regards, Rob

Hello Timo, Here is one of my vic groups, from cuba. It has already been posted on the vic thread but it has pieces of relevance to this topic as well. The group is: * Order of Military Merit 4th class cross, with dark red enamel. * Long Service medal, with 5 chevron devices. * Unofficial Cuban victory medal. * National Reconciliation medal, with 1 star device. I would agree that the Long Service Medal has chevrons on the medal ribbon but I have also seen other ribbon bars with the stars as per your example. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, I don't believe that there is too much to the differences in the ribbons. If the medal has the correct bar / clasp, and it is correctly fixed, the medal has the correct purple thread at the top affixing the ribbon to the brooch and the brooch is the correct type I would say all is good. Considering the vast scale of production of this medal, in in the large quantities of US vics that were produced I would suggest that some variations in the ribbons used would be inevitable. The way I view it is if the whole package looks okay, (medal, ribbon, bar / clasps, and brooch) and the wear is consistent then I am happy. Just my 2c. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, I would wholeheartedly agree that having good quality close-up pictures of the obverse and reverse of the official strikes is very handy. It aids in identifying the official pieces against the myriad of unofficial and subsequent reproduction pieces. I am hopeful that other vic collectors will also post good close-ups of their pieces for the rest of the collecting fraternity to view and use and to compare. In specific reference to the Rom vic there are a few strikes that were produced by different French manufacturers that closely resemble the official strike so it does pay to have a confirmed official close up pic to compare. Regards, Rob

Hello Noor, Thanks for the very useful and handy updates to ribbon bars on thread. The vic medals are one thing but the actual ribbon bars always speak to the collector as well. Regards, Rob

And the reverse. Regards, Rob

Here is another close-up of the official Rom vic. Obverse. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, In regards a copy with the 'Kristesko' stamp; yes there is definitely such a type. I will be a bit vague lest I contribute to the education of the fakers that may be out there. Specifically; the 'Kristesko' mark is in raised relief instead of the letters being incused as on the official vic. It is most often seen on some of the online auction sites and is euphemistically sold as an official piece or even as a 'modern repro'. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, This Romanian vic looks okay to me. Other than the fact that it is suspended from Italian victory medal ribbon, it just appears to be more worn in some areas than the examples I posted. I would suggest that the differences are as a result of some rubbing and wear on the face and obverse. The 'Kristesko' signature on the reverse looks good to me as well, just slightly more worn. The rings and font used on the country names is consistent with an official issue. In addition to those areas of wear that you have listed there is also a large amount of wear on the reverse of the ball suspender, indicating much rubbing and contact over a period of time. When I have time I will re-scan one of my official Rom vics in larger detail so that others can compare. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello JM and others, As mentioned by Kevin from Deva, Alex Laslo passed away on 1 March 2004 after a short illness. Additional details are provided in the May-June 2004 Journal of the Orders and Medals Society of America (Volume 55, Number 3). This forum thread is as good a place as any to continue the promulgation of new information about the vic series as it comes to light. Regards, Rob

To those US vic collectors who participate on this thread, Here are some pics of some engagement (battle) clasps to the US vic. Some collectors have suggested that these were produced in France but the collectors who I have corresponded with in France do not agree. There are no markings on the reverse backstrap or reverse of the bar itself, as is usually the case with items produced in France, and there are file striations on the top and bottom edges of the bar showing signs of manufacture. The stars and font used are not consistent with French manufactured items. Do any US collectors have any idea as to the background to these bars? Regards, Rob

Tony, You have a nice Czech official strike with yet another variation of the unblended ribbon that is seen with Czech vics. Yours has the more commonly seen barrel suspender. Those earlier strikes, produced by Alexander Leisek, had a cylindrical suspender. Regards, Rob

Hello Tony, Yes I would agree that May 1921 looks correct. The fact that there is so much detail on the MICs make them such a good source of information and it certainly assists the collector in conducting research. The story 'behind the medal' is in a lot of cases much more interesting than the actual medal itself. Regards, Rob

Hello Tony, Welcome to the thread. Always good to see another face with vics. If you check the recipient details against their MIC it should have an issue date for the medal. If it is before January 1921 it is most likely a type 1. If after that date it is, as you suggest, most likely just dirty or tarnished with time. Regards, Rob

Hello Bosungus, I have seen bronze and silver numerals affixed to both Navy and Marine Corps Expeditionary medals but not the vic. In the other cases these numerals were used to identify the number of expeditions the individual served on. I would suggest that the number on the vic ribbon probably represents the number of engagement bars that were awarded and present on the medal. The only approved method of indicating such engagement bars were the small bronze stars that were affixed to the ribbon. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, Yes it is a nice Czech re-issue type 2. The ribbon is, as you have suggested, an original one that was used with the re-issue Czech pieces that were produced immediately following World War 2. Comparison pics are on the thread at posts #27, #214, and #215. It is always nice to obtain a piece with the 'correct to period' ribbon as it adds to the authenticity of the piece and can be referred to later. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, I am not sure what Mr Laslo would have classed this piece as, but I would still call it an official issue, depsite the late date on the MIC. This does bring up the point of what label do we put on specific items. I think that the individual classification of any of the vics is in the eye of the collector. By way of illustration; In the 1920s and 1930s a number of French medal manufacturers (M.Delande, Arthus Bertrand, Chobillon, and Janvier-Berchot among others...) produced copies of some of the Interallied vic series. Some collectors would call them copies as that is technically what they are. I would call them reproductions as they were sold as such and sometimes used to replace lost / misplaced official issues. To muddy those waters they were also purchased by recipients for wear so it is all a subjective point. Mr Laslo did produce a number classifications which are listed in his book so again it is an exercise in definitions. Regards, Rob