RobW

And here is a bronze example. Regards, Rob

Hello all, Here are a couple of Panama Medals of Solidarity. While Panama played no active part in the Great War they did award this medal in solidarity to the allies and it is associated with the Great War and the Interallied vic series in general. According to Alex Purves' book 'The Medals, Decorations & Orders of the Great War 1914-1918' this medal was produced in limited quantities, in three classes. Numbers awarded were reportedly 100 to each of the allied countries. Medals were awarded in gold (silver-gilt) to commanders in chief, silver with a rosette to generals and senior officers and bronze to officers and other ranks. This silver version, while not mine, shows the rosette clearly. Bronze example to follow. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, That is certainly a very nice trio of family vics and having them all named makes such research all the more enjoyable. It is the story behind the medals that is of such interest. I really can't see this thread exploding with new posts given the abject lack of regular posts but the thought is a good one. There are, alas, only a few consistent posters. More fun for us though. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, While I have not a lot of experience in US medals I think the medal to the left of the US vic could be: The Mexican Service Medal - Army, and I say that purely because of the ribbon stripes in the close-up. What may aid in researching this gentleman is the fact that he is wearing a silver citation star on his vic. In regards the ribbon bar pair above the vic I think the ribbon to the left is the 'International ribbon' that was worn by a lot of recipients immediately following the Great War. It is commonly seen with the 'Veterans of Foreign Wars' ribbon. Here is a pic for reference. Regards, Rob

To all, While this example has been posted previously in the Great Britain section, it is relevant given the context of this thread. Here is a bronze British war medal awarded to a member of the Chinese Labour Corps. Entitlement to the medal is confirmed. As alluded to in the previous post it is the only 'official' recognition that the Chinese workers received. It is, to my mind, more indicative of the Chinese service in the Great War and certainly complements a vic collection. Given its scarcity, collectors should be wary of the numerous copies and fakes that exist of this medal. There is a medal roll of recipients which makes checking the details on the rim of the medal all the more important. Regards, Rob

Hey Tim, I would agree that there does seem to be only a few active participants in this thread. It is surprising given the international flavour of the vic series. I agree that the Phillipine items are not official vics but have gained some form of association with the interallied vic series, especially from US collectors from what I have seen. Other than Alex Laslo's book and a corresponding OMSA article about the subject there appears little information about them in the wider collecting community. Even the OMSA publication on Phillipine medals has little detail with Laslo's reference containing much more information. I would also agree that the Chinese commemorative medal is often incorrectly associated with the vic series. If anything there should be more reference to the British War Medal in bronze that was awarded to those chinese members of the Labour Corps (CLC). That is the only 'official' recognition these members of the CLC received as they were deemed not eligible for the vic. They are not that prevalent, are hard to obtain in good condition, and are plagued by many copies and outright fakes. I consider having such an example as illustrative of the Chinese effort and contribution during the war, as they provided many, many personnel for service in the Labour Corps, and it is also probable why China was added to the reverse of the US vic. In addition to those medals there is also the case of the Panama Medal for Solidarity that was awarded following the war. Alec Purves' book mentions that they were only awarded on a very limited scale and are again immediately identified and associated with the vic series. Now that you mention it I would agree that it is probably a good idea to just include all the items in this thread, including the US state awards, Phillipine items and any other associated awards including that from Panama. That way all the pieces that people can share, relating to this topic, are in the one spot. If anything it may create some more discussion. Time will tell. Regards, Rob

Tim, I would also suggest that there should be enough interest in such a newer thread. It could also include those victory type medals that have been seen from the Phillipines Constabulary and National Guard, that seem to be very rare and continually confused with the interallied victory medal series. Regards, Rob

Hey Tim, I think that while these separate US state vics are interesting they should be in their own separate thread. Regards, Rob

And the close-ups. That's me done for a while. Regards, Rob

To all, As mentioned here is the modern repro of the Japanese vic. Close-ups to follow. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, The Japanese vic repro you are referring to is actually not a repro type 1 as identified in Alex Laslo's book. You are correct in identifying that the repro type 1 is mounted on a ball suspender, and was produced in France in the 1920-1930s period, but the example in this particular auction is not one of those. The repro in the mentioned auction is a more recent reproduction based on the dies that were also used for the much earlier French repro, hence the similarities. It was produced in the UK, most likely around the Birmingham area [which is where a lot of the more recent repro's are coming from] and was produced with a barrel suspender. These examples are made in a different base metal to the 1920s French variety and have a slightly thicker planchet. In addition they will have, as you have identified, the unblended thicker weave vic ribbon that is also produced in the UK. When I have time I shall post some comparison pics of this more modern repro. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, The text in the centre is: Named individual... 'est autorisé a porter la MÉDAILLE DE LA VICTOIRE (ruban aux coleurs de denx arcs-en-ciel juxtaposes par le rouge avec un filet blanc sur chaque bord)' My French is not too good but that is roughly translated to: 'Named individual... is authorised to wear the victory medal (ribbon has the colours of the rainbow with a centre red stripe with a white stripe on the edge). Of note at the bottom of the award certificate is a small footnote: 'Nota. - Par application des dispositions de l'article 13 de la loi du 20 juillet 1922, il n'est pas délivré de diplome et il appartient aux ayants droit de se procurer l'insigne a leurs frais, dans le commerce' Roughly translated again this indicates...In accordance with item 13 of the law of July 20, 1922 [which established the French vic] the diploma merely gives you the right to wear the award but the individual had to go out and purchase the actual medal at their own expense. This is not that unusual. Those eligible and awarded the diploma had to obtain the actual medal themselves from any one of the different medal manufacturers that were in the market, and was not limited to just the vic. There are many that believe it is the award certificate that is the important piece because it is individual where the medal is produced by many. Here is another certificate so others can see the detail. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Thomas, Those collectors that generally confine themselves to the British and other Commonwealth awards, are used to seeing miniatures in a consistent size around 18mm. It is only when you start collecting such a varied series of medals, like the vics, that were produced by a large number of countries, including many from the European continent, that you become aware of the different sizes of mini's. The Belgians and French produced a wide variety of mini awards in different sizes and it was not just limited to the vic. In addition those mini's produced by Italy and Portugal are also seen in a variety of sizes. By the same token there are numerous different examples of the British and US vic mini with minor detail changes depending on the manufacturer and time of production so variety abounds. I think that it is this cosmopolitan nature of the vic series which makes it such an interesting and diverse field of collecting in its own right. Country specific but international in flavour. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, There is no problem with yours. As I mentioned the suspender ring for the unofficial type 2, was different to that as seen on the other official, and unofficial type 1 and 3 Greek vic. Yours is fine. I have attached a close-up of the suspender of one of my official Greek vics for you to compare. In this case it has the original French produced ribbon still attached which is particularly fragile and has a habit of fraying. Even among the official examples there are small variations in the minute detail but that is to be expected. Regards, Rob

Hello all, Here is another certificate for the Orient medal, awarded in September 1926. This particular recipient was also awarded the Interallied victory medal in January 1932. Regards, Rob

To all, As previously indicated here are some pics of my bronze BWM to a member of the Chinese Labour Corps. The recipient (No 49101) is confirmed on the CLC medal roll. What would be interesting is if fellow collectors could post their examples of all the different Labour Corps as there were quite a few from the different countries. Regards, Rob

To all, There is a good 4 page discussion over at Medalcollectors forum which has some good information on the CLC, including a book project in the works. The link is: Medalcollectors.com - Chinese Labour Corps (Registration required but easy and free) Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, I would agree that the clasp suspender is both unusual and interesting design. It is also unusual because many similar Greek campaign medals of the era were suspended by a thick wire, crown or straight bar suspender. Here is a close up of the suspender from one of my Greek unofficial type 2 varieties. It is a bit different from the official and other unofficial types having a slightly narrower suspender base. Regards, Rob

Hey Tim, Totally agree. I had been aware that such Polish examples were outright fakes and paid little to nothing for my examples. That was, as you have suggested, quite a few years ago and now these fantasy pieces are indeed steadily creeping up in price. While the adage of ' a fool and his money are easily parted' may be apt in a lot of cases it will come down to a lack of knowledge and information to make an informed opinion. That is something that will be vexing for any collector least of all those of us who collect the vic series that is rapidly approaching the 100 year mark. Regards, Rob

Hey Tim, I have a copy of all three of the Polish fake examples; only to illustrate and educate myself and other collectors. Having the knowledge is one thing and having the examples to scrutinise and then become aware of the detail is another. Regards, Rob

Tim, I have a couple of this other unofficial Buttuller strike with a thick wire and ball suspender. When I can track them down, amongst the myriad of boxes, I shall post a pic. Regards, Rob

Hey Tim, I would agree that the prices paid for specific vic pieces by collectors on the online auction scene is not always consistent. In most cases the buyers are probably not overly aware of the scarcity of the individual pieces, by different country and a wide disparity in prices realised happens all too often. As for the $365 price for a czech official I would suggest that this is a fair price for the official type 1 because it is far and away much more scarce than the commonly seen official type 2. The official type 1 are rarely seen in the market and so command a premium. All in all I would say another case of buyer beware !! Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, As indicated above this item is a fake and is one to avoid. While there was a further unofficial strike produced by the firm of Casa Buttuller in the 1940s, in addition to the unofficial type 1 and 2 already listed in Mr Laslo's reference, it does not look like this piece at all. This later Buttuller stirke was very fine and precise and has been seen with both a thick wire and ball suspender. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, Both this Romanian piece and the following Portugal piece are outright fakes. Some more generous collectors would probably describe them as modern reproductions, which they are as well, but in this case they are marketed and sold as the original piece. Both of these examples, as well as most of the vic series are the result of a well known (in some circles) US person who has been producing fakes of many medals; not just the vic series. The give-away on this piece is the crudeness of the obverse strike as you identified, and the raised KRISTESKU mark on the reverse. There are other specific errors in both this and the Portugal strike but I shall not list them here as it will only aid the fakers if they are present amongst us! Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Brian, I have a bronze BWM to a Wang Ch'ing Lin (No 49101) of the Chinese Labour Corps. I am not in Sydney at the moment but when I return I shall take some pics for comparison and post them for your perusal. Regards, Rob