SteveL

Gordon, Uwe....I have Hans-Jurgens reply....I have copied and pasted straight from my e-mail account.....straight from the horses mouth, so to speak..... "Thank you for question. You are right. Even we had problems to differentiate between the colour for Artillery and Panzer (Waffenfarben). As you said, for Artillery it is red (hoch rot) and for Panzer rosa . I can assure you that I have always been a Panzer Officer. Because we (Officers) knew that the different of shades rosa pink depending from the origin of our tunics, we preferred the tailor-made tunics from the tailors Kuhnert andRahne in Hannover . They had their typical lighter rosa for Kragenspiegel and Schulterklappen, against which the tunics for Officers and Sergeants for profession from the Bundeswehr Kleiderkasse and the tunics for drafts and Sergeants from theKleiderkammer have a more dark red, similar to the Artillery. I still have the badges you asked for. I can send them to you if you want. If you still have the photo, please have a look on it. You will see four pairs of Kragenspiegel. The pairs left and right are light rosa . I suppose from Kuhnert or Rahne. The second pair on the right is also Panzer-rosa, but Kleiderkammer for drafts-tunics. The second pair on the left is goldgelb – Panzeraufklärer. If you need further declarations concerning the badges, please ask me." There is nothing more I can add, other than post some good photographs of the different shades....it will be Thursday when my son with his fancy camera can come and photograph the items. But I am inclined to think we have the answer here, that private purchase tunics can and were tailored with varying shades of Rosa pink.....as opposed to the standardised "Rosa" at the KKBw. Prost ! Steve.

Paul...Women have served in the BW since 1975 in the medical services...in 1993 they were allowed to serve as enlisted men status and NCO'S, in 2000 a successful lawsuit to the European Court of Justice by a Tanya Kriel saw women in 2001 allowed to serve in all branches without restriction, even in combat situations, but they were not ever subject to conscription unlike males. Prost ! Steve.

Chris....I have no female mannaquins....it was only to photograph the tunic on, its back to its proper use know, see here..... Prost ! Steve.

Uwe...luck would have it, I have just purchased an early "Aufklarer" uniform from Germany, it is on its way as we speak, a very light grey in colour, (Alter Art in Hellgrau) and bearing a tailors label for "Georg Schweda".....it has embroidered rank stars, and is named to a Hauptman Graf von Saurma, I will post when it arrives.....I am doing research with regards to the name. Prost ! Steve.

Thanks for your reply Gordon...I unaware of accusing you or anyone else of questioning Hans-Jurgens statement, this is a enjoyable debate, which I am sure all of us can learn from. I however I have just spent time photographing these tunics collar patches and shoulder straps, (in all types of light !) I am unhappy with the outcome, it is think my camara is at fault here, it is a digital "Agfa" of the tourist type, upon reflection it is not producing the correct colour tones, they do appear to be red on film, in hand they are more (to me) pink, although not the more standard Rosa shown the earliest tunic....my son has a much more sophisticated camara (and more expensive !) I shall, when he appears, ask him his advice and see if we can get "in hand" type photographs.... Prost ! Steve.

Gentlemen...one of three women's tunics I have, this being for a female Feldwebel attached to Panzerbrigade 12 "Oberpfalz", one of the older Brigades of the BW formed 1st July 1956...the tunic is dated 1993..note the "Alt Gold" piping around the collar, these two pocket tunics are tailored around the female form, so it was quite invoved to get it to look correct on a male mannaquin ! I am a fan of these underated tunics...i think they are very stylish and IMO hark back to the Third Reich periods women's tunics in style and cut. I hope you enjoy ! Prost ! Steve. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-91452800-1334588080.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-84311000-1334588106.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-71267400-1334588125.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-85672600-1334588155.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-43596000-1334588171.jpg

Sorry Gordon your statement is wrong, not all Officers tunics were supplied by the KKBw as Uwe concurs......I have several private purchase tunics with civilian tailor labels.....Uwe, I shall provide photographs taken in daylight, outside, as I feel that these would be better in natural light.......I am still awaiting a reply from Hans-Jurgen. Prost ! Steve.

Gordon...arm shield on Majors tunic...... 1st Corps based at Munster H.Q.(photograph) also shown correct breast hanger. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-50425900-1334554569.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-09577800-1334554592.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-37976400-1334554653.jpg As far as the anomilies with "Rosa" are concerned, I am sure Herr Pohl is going to inform me he was Panzer through and through, but we shall see..... one makers interpretation of Panzer pink can be different than another's ?....all these tunics were made by different civilian tailors. Prost ! Steve.

For the uninitiated....... Prost ! Steve.

Uwe, Gordon......Herr Pohl served up to his appointment in 1st Corps in Panzerbrigade 8, since joining the BW in 1968. It is true that the tunics display different shades of pink on the collar patches and shoulder boards.....from a light pink through to a darker pink,as the Americans would say, baby pink through to hot pink....I shall speak to Hans-Jurgen and check to see if he ever served within an Artillery battalion within Panzerbrigade 8. Prost ! Steve.

This is the last of Retired Bundeswehr veteran Hans-Jurgen Pohl tunics that I have aquired.....I have already shown his Gala uniform and an earlier dated Srvice uniform, I will let Herr Pohl in his own words describe this tunic to you......"I have worn the tunic while being a Major in the staff of the I. (German) Korps in Münster. This NATO-Korps was till 1990 the largest Army Corps with its round about 108 000 Soldiers. We had to lead 5 Divisions in the northern part of Germany during peace time. This corps does no longer exist and has changed to the German/Netherlands Corps with its staff still in Münster but not comparable with the former German Corps. You see this tunic tailored by a light pastel shade of gray fabric. The weapons colour is pink – German Panzer troops. On the left sleeve there is the badge of the I. (German) Korps. On the right breast pocket the see the symbol of the staff in Münster. The badge and the Korps-symbol are now “history” while the tunic – tailored in 1990 – is still current and worn by Panzer-officers even today". Prost ! Steve. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-89494800-1334334835.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-48580300-1334334881.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-31871500-1334334914.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-27109900-1334334952.jpg

Thanks for the kind words Dan.....here is my early "Krim" shield, evidenced by its "antique" finish and the four prong attachments, I believe later versions had three prongs. These shields are not full size, that is to say they are about three quarters the size of a Third Reich example, nor were they available with either a backing plate or piece of appropriate uniform cloth either ! Prost ! Steve. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-07121200-1334093670.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-50635700-1334093735.jpg

Gents.....a link you may find of some interest.....a pictorial of the Official 57er's http://www.ordensmus...16Jan0857er.pdf Prost ! Steve.

Gents, some 57er Kreigsmarine awards.......one is early, a couple are mid production and one is late. Prost ! Steve. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-84818000-1334087814.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-21945300-1334087845.jpg

Hi, thanks for that Uwe, it is indeed titled "Der Deutschen Streitkrafte" (the pre-BW official term for the German armed forces), as for the pip colours, I need new glasses ! Prost ! Steve.

Gents, a rather odd studio portrait of General Hans von Donat, wearing his Third Reich period uniform....with 57er ribbon bar attached ! Prost ! Steve.

Did you get the uniform Paul ? Prost ! Steve.

mmmmm................................interesting.

Laurence...your "Eagle" badge in post #2 is a "Leistungsabzeichen" a BW proficiency badge, yours appears to be a stage III in Gold. See here for details... http://translate.goo...=X&oi=translate Prost ! Steve.

Hi David....superb early wound badges with WW2 pin/hinge block set ups....outstanding ! Prost ! Steve.

Gents...another early uniform brochure, from 1955/56..... Prost ! Steve. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-33000100-1334065383.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-75438200-1334065401.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-60201300-1334065418.jpg

Gents, a rather well illustrated booklet printed in 1960 by the FRG, entitled "UNSER SOLDATEN" (Our Soldiers) shows early aspects of all services within the Bundeswehr.....a good source of reference, heres a glimpse....... Prost ! Steve. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-34342500-1333994629.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-46393800-1333994643.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-06883800-1333994656.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-77370000-1333994669.jpg

Paul, having owned a wartime version many years ago, an "Oberstleutnant of Cavalry" if I remember correctly, there around the same weight.....they were made of a similar material, a lightweight cotton, virtually the same as my early BW "Sandfarben" tunic....... Prost ! Steve.

In the Bundeswehr a white summer tunic, the so called "Casinojacke" was authorised for wear by Officers, between 1963 and 1973, it sported slip on style shoulder boards, regulations stated no other insignia or awards were to worn upon the jacket. All of its buttons were removable for cleaning purposes, held on by a split ring, there was a cleaning instruction label sewn onto the inside left pocket area, these tunics were fitted with a removable shoulder pad held on by press studs. They look at first glance to be of the Third Reich period as they are of a similiar appearance, sporting pleated patch pockets and loose double cuffs. However as in all armies regulation were made to be broken and examples exist that sport a combination of insignia and awards......Here is one of my "Casinojackes" a regulation style "Brigadegeneral" tunic. Prost ! Steve. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-37419600-1333971973.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-70923000-1333971989.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-54673300-1333972011.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-15009000-1333972035.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-7645-0-73892900-1333972056.jpg

Thank you for the kind words Paul, I shall post his Majors tunic and his fathers Panzer combo over the coming week. Prost ! Steve.