paja

Greetings Georg, As everyone can see there are many different variants of this decoration - IKOM, ZIN, on a wide or narrow screw, vertical, double vertical or double horizontal needle, silver, tombak, numbered or not, with Roman numerals on the back or without them, converted types, third class with golden star and silver fighter and the other way around, names of the order were changed as well... That diversity is is the main reason why this particular Yugoslav order is one of my favorite ones. Now to try to answer some of your questions. All of the orders with hallmarks that I have seen so far were made by IKOM (but not all of the IKOM orders are silver), even the ones with, for example, vertical needle with ZIN or ZNB inscription... Belgrade factory was just remaking them, taking IKOM orders, cutting off screws from the back and adding their needle instead. I have no idea why this was being done, perhaps IKOM didn't develop their type of needle at the time so in the interim period they were sending orders to ZIN to remake them. On the other hand I have never seen ZIN (ZNB) made order with hallmarks, I can not say with absolute certainty that they are all tombak but I consider them as such. One more thing that can cause additional confusion is that people sometimes put wrong nuts on orders so you have IKOM order with ZIN or ZNB nut on the back and vice versa. Based on everything that I have seen my personal opinion is that orders with low numbers were made by ZIN and that IKOM most probably started from some larger number. Perhaps the ZIN was the first producer of the order and then after some time IKOM got involved...

Greetings, First one could be some kind of a religious cross. Greek abbreviation ΜΡ ΘΥ stands for Mother of God. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theotokos

No to go any further in that direction I just want to point out that you have to bear in mind that this is a very specific region where a strong connection between religion and national identity exists.

There is a very good movie about a similar event that happened on the Western Front: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424205/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2

Serbian and Bulgarian soldiers stopped hostilities, left the trenches and met on the no man's land where they wished a Happy Eater to each other and exchanged food and tobacco. This happened during Great War - 1917, and there is a description of this event in the book "Serbian Trilogy" by Stevan Jakovljević (orig. title "Српска трилогија" Стеван Јаковљевић).

Greetings, Car&Muhić are only guessing that that type of order that Obi showed us is made by Huguenin ("...It might well be from the early period of Huguenin Freres.") so we are not completely sure about the producer. Quality of the ebay images that you have showed us is very low and the hallmark on Obi's image is too small so I can't say for sure if the hallmarks are identical. But my personal opinion is that they are not. I think, based on the images that we have at the moment, that their shape is a bit different, they are not on the same place on the order, it looks like the hallmark is on the front side on your piece and on the back side of Obi's. Only image of Piret that I saw so far was in the book that we are all mentioning. Now about the images, according to your words your phone camera is more than enough for your hobby (post #22) but at the same time it is not good enough to make pictures of this particular order even with the macro on (post #18). When Rogi told you that he is no longer interested in buying the order because of the lack of further images, among other things, you posted more of them from ebay. Did I get something wrong or did you finish your last reply saying that you do not have Saint Sava that you are trying to sell? PS we have Collector's Sales Area on the forum and that would be the right place for your ad, not this section.

Hello again, Actually the order that Obi showed us is not Piret but according to Car&Muhić most probably early Huguenin. Icon on your piece is on the other hand just like on Piret's from the same source. So your order looks like combination of the lower class early Huguenin and the Piret's icon from the book. Piece from the book is different in many details from yours but on the other hand it's 3rd class and yours is 5th. So that's the trouble here, I don't have images of the same variant and the same class to compare it with... By the way thanks for new images, did you make them? Are all of those pieces from your collection? 3rd class looks like Sorlini, am I right?

Thanks for that image, not only a rare variant but also with a rosette on the ribbon, something you don't see very often on Serbian decorations.

When you compare this order with the one in the book you can notice that couple of details are different. If you disregard the image of the saint the order itself looks more like one also rare variant which Obi was kind enough to show us in this topic: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/58993-serbia-order-of-st-sava-v-class-1883-huguenin-freres/

So you are having the same bad weather as us here. Actually I think that pictures come up better on a cloudy day than on a sunny one I would be very grateful if you could post couple of them, but if it is too much trouble I don't want to bother you. Sounds like you got Rogi interested

Don't mention it, Paul and Rogi wrote about this producer so all the credit goes to them. Apart from the one in the book that we were talking about this is the only one I ever saw, so they really are very rare. Unfortunately that also means that it's hard to say what would be some real price for it. I'm not completely sure but I think that the seller's first price was 5K! Anyway my congrats on this piece PS If it's not too much to ask could you please make a couple of better pictures and post them on the forum

Greetings to all, I completely agree with Paul and Rogi, it looks just like piece made by "Joseph Piret Brussels" shown under Unknown produces in the book by Car&Muhić. Image of the saint is more than just similar, crown is of the same type, and the four two-headed eagles are looking pretty much the same to me. By the way, I've seen this piece couple of months ago on ebay. The seller used exactly the same images and the order was ridiculously overpriced at first, if I remember well in the end it got sold for 10 times less than the original price.

Don't mention it Paul, I'm glad that you think so. Best regards, Radmilo

No date one the blue ribbon on the back side. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-76579400-1390003438.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-17640200-1390003450.jpg

This seemed like an appropriate topic, I didn't want to start a new one. Any thoughts on this one? Private workshop or something else? Obviously much lower quality than orders made in famous Austrian workshops. http://www.liverpoolmedals.com/Order-of-The-White-Eagle-L24884.html http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-27953400-1390003234.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-21343400-1390003246.jpg

Bartiv Viktor image #2 First ribbon from the left in the last row.

Bartov Viktor (Бартов Виктор) - Order of Merits for the FRY 3rd class.

Viktor Zavarzin (Виктор Заварзин) - Order of Merits for the FRY 2nd class.

Leonid Ivashov image #2

Leonid Ivashov (Леонид Григорьевич Ивашов) awarded with the same decoration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Ivashov http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-62589400-1389989504.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-75438400-1389989511.jpg

Korabelnikov Valentin (Валентин Владимирович Корабельников) awarded with the Order of Merits for the FRY 1st class. It's ribbon is first from the left in the last row. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Korabelnikov http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-88519800-1389989139.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-01253600-1389989149.jpg

Baluyevsky Yuri image #3

Baluyevsky Yuri image #2 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-15134900-1389988727.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-75329500-1389988746.jpg

Baluyevsky Yuri (Юрий Николаевич Балуевский) notice the ribbon for the Order of the Yugoslav Star 2nd class on his ribbon bar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Baluyevsky http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-24681600-1389988568.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7937-0-47410600-1389988575.jpg