Hauptmann

Here's the big bar... pics and the bar from "a very good friend".

Many thanks! I really think it will make an awesome set once I get the rest of the pieces I want to display together. Dan

I've finally managed to get into Imperial bars. I have one coming the beginning of next month. It's a two place bar... WW1 EK2 and Prussian Order of the Crown 4th Class without swords. Will try to post pics in a bit... am asking for permission from the current owner. Just managed to add to the set... a lovely little buttonhole minature of the Crown Order. I think I did quite well on this one. Would love to hear comments/opinions, etc. I'm hoping to be able to do a nice cased display of the bar, the buttonhole ribbon, plus if I can (hopefully) locate either a miniature ribbon for my WW1 EK2 mini or a similar buttonhole with mini for it as well as a ribbon bar to match the medal bar. Much as I love enamel I think I actually prefer the 4th Class of this Order as it's got just the right amount of enamel plus the gold on the rest of it... just a lovely piece. Will add pics of the medal bar soon as I can. Dan

Mervyn, many thanks for your help on this! Every little bit of info I can get is a jewel adding to my knowledge on these. Dan

Thanks Chris! Re: the research that's what I'm wondering as well. Sure would be nice to put the history back with this one. Keeping my fingers crossed. Dan

Many thanks Gordon! I agree... it's a beautiful Order and I'd always regretted having to let the ones I had go years ago especially as most were cased. But I got a great trade on them, and one of the items I got was my 1870 2nd class EK so I'm very happy with what I received in exchange, that most of all. Dan

Many thanks Daniele! Once you said it was to a Swiss citizen I looked at it and as shown in post 7 in closeup I can now see that's what it says. I don't speak Italian but now realize that's what it said. Deeply appreciate the help on this. Out of curiosity, is there any way to research this for more info? I believe they were still making awards to catch up long after the war, if they're not still at it... I believe the only nation to do this, at least in any quantity. So no idea if they perhaps have kept any records as to what was awarded to who for what. Also, any ideas on the signatures/titles, etc., of the others who signed the document? When I checked around on the web I saw a few examples where they were signed by Mussolini (although assuming it was using something like autopen or something similar and not original signatures... although, again I full well admit my knowledge on these has a long way to go. I know Mussolini did sign a ton of documents, etc., so guessing it's possible they were original signatures. I'm eager to learn as much as I can on these, and this award in particular as it is currently my only example. Plus I love to get back as much history to these awards as possible. Dan

The document measures 15" x 11". Will keep my fingers crossed that someone can provide more info on this set. Many thanks! Dan

Note: the discoloration and holes here are where the Order was mounted through the doc/cardstock backing and where the small amount of glue attached the ribbon. )

The Doc is so big I had to do it in two pics... will follow with closeups of the awardee's name, the signatures and the embossed seal:

Received the set yesterday and I'm extremely impressed... especially by the condition of the Order as it appears to me to be in just about mint condition. I'm sorry to say that at some point in it's past someone attached the award to the bottom portion of the doc as you see in the original pics I posted, both by using what I can only describe as looking like one of those big metal staples except instead of brass they're a dark metal. This left two small holes in the doc. Also they used a tiny bit of glue which also did it's work. Other than that the doc is in great shape. Although it was also glued to a piece of card stock, apparently at the same time as they mounted the award. Anyhow here are some scans I made last night but haven't had a chance to post till now. Also, the base metal on the award looks to me to be gold... does this sound right? And lastly, there is a small "makers" (?) mark between the arms of the cross, much like that which was used on Prussian Red Eagle Orders, etc. It appears to be the letter B. Again hoping one of you may be able to pass on more info regarding the mark.

Actually Nick tried a black light on it when he had it and he said it was no help. Far as a camera shop, good or otherwise, that may be a bit of a chore as we don't have anything like that here in little Carrington. There might be one in one of the bigger cities but till we can make a trip over (4 hour round trip plus a small fortune in gas these days) for other things I'll just have to stay in a holding pattern. I "think" there is at least one copy shop over in Jamestown and there may be one in Devils Lake, both of which we get to much more often than any of the bigger cities. If so, on our next trip over I'll try to take it along and see if perhaps they can do a better scan on their professional equipment to see if we can come up with a clearer version of the doc. Will keep ya'll posted. Dan

Sorry Windu but Jim's absolutely correct... none of us will be able to help on the basis of these pics. I really hate to say that. Do you possible have access to a scanner at school? Or does a friend or relative have a digital camera you could use to do the pics (or have them take them? If a camera, see if it has a macro function as many do and that would allow you to take closer shots while keeping it in focus. Dan

Windu, best if you post a good clear picture of the side of the EK that's having the problem, and possibly a closeup of the area of concern. That will help determine the best action to take. As far as oil, doesn't necessarily have to be gun oil. Just a thin oil... don't know if you have something called 3in1 oil over there or not but that would work. I'm sure if you went to a hardware store they could provide what you'd need. Just something to protect it from further harm. But again, just a tiny bit will do and then use a soft cloth to spread that over the area and the rest of the core. But again, hold off until you can post some good, clear pics... scans are better. Dan

Sorry... got caught up in a few other things and forgot to add this: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/48783-ww1-ek-2-with-original-award-document/page__pid__449717#entry449717 Dan

Number six: Dan

Document is dated October 12, 1939. It measures 15" x 11". If anyone can tell me more about this, the doc, etc., it would be deeply appreciated. Also, how hard would it be to find a case for this Order and roughly what would one go for? Dan

Hoping to have this within the week. Will do better scans of the doc when it arrives.

Andy, many thanks for this great additional info! I'm guessing there are no pictures of him? I took a quick look on Google and so far no luck. But definitely a bonus to have the signature of a holder of the PLM. Dan

An update on this one. Uwe very kindly helped out with this one and after some hard work on his part here's what he came up with: Res.Inf.Regt. 91 gereicht es mir zu meiner ganz besonderen Freude, Ihnen das von seiner Majestät dem Kaiser und König verliehene Eiserne Kreuz übersenden zu können. Es ist mir ... einen der ... Vaterlande geleistete und mit dem Regt .... v.Heynitz Oberstleutnant ... It is not the award document, it is the covering letter "Übersendungsschreiben", where the award document and the Iron cross should be included. Uwe, I deeply appreciate all your hard work and effort on this one and you're being kind enough to help me out with it. Sorry it didn't turn out to actually be the award document as that's what both myself and the previous owner thought it was. Still makes a beautiful framed set and I still love it every bit as much as when I thought it was the award document. Guessing it's time to be on the lookout for a good reference or two on documents. Sigh... the library just keeps getting bigger. Dan

Uwe, many thanks! Great info! Any idea on the officer's signature? Also any idea if it's possible to find out more about this Unteroffizier? Dan