Christian Zulus

Dear Simon, many thanks for your research . So it seems, that the Nevsky had been actually awarded up to the top rank - division commander - listed in the order's regulation. Might had been rare, but it happend. Best regards Christian

Gentlemen, up to my taste, the "new" military awards of the successors of the Soviet Union are no match to the original SU-Awards - they look rather "cheap" in terms of design . Is it still possible for the GPW-veteran to get his Glory 3cl or his OPW 2cl? What about duplicate awards? If a veteran looses an order, would he get another one with the cyrillic "d" from the Russian Mint? Best regards Christian Zulus

Dear Jim, very interesting topic! I have read somewhere, that in the 1990s the new Russian authorities & mint still confered genuine Soviet orders & medals to veterans, who had not yet received their awards. Is there any evidence about that? What about veterans, who lived outside of Russia, but within the former SU? Best regards Christian

Order of the Patriotic War 2cl Gentlemen, the only duplicate award I have in my collection is a OPW 2cl T2 "starback" with the s/n. 46.653 with a cyrillic "d" at the lower gun shaft at the av. The condition of the order is 10/10 - almost mint, but with traces of nice patina. Sorry ...., no photograph - my scanner can only tackle with rather flat items . Best regards Christian Zulus

ORB #7 & #8: Yes or no? Gentlemen, my question again: Do you think, that ORBs #6+ existed - or not? We have seen two intersting photographs of bearers and some reference in literature. Best regards Christian Zulus

Lieber Gerd, in Irkutsk his only chance was a long service award . O.K., but I assume, that the so called "long-service-awards" had also the function to compensate achievments of the rewarded person through the last years. I think, that comrade Filenius as the commander of the Evacuation Hospital 325 located in Irkutsk had no other change, than to get his ORB & Lenin via "long-service". If you are far away from the battle line, than you only have the "long-service-awards" . I assume, that also the so called "long-service-awards" had their meritorious function in the Soviet system. Liebe Gr??e aus Wien Christian

Dear Paul, to interfere was the job of the druzhinniks . I think, that your Russian friend was just a normal human being . Best regards Christian

Dear Wild Card, the expression on the face of comrade Michail I. Lavrentiev at his ID-booklet fascinated me - this unique mixture of dedication & brutality . ID-booklet & badge was not cheap - I had to transfer about USD 50,- to my favorite dealer in Vienna, but Michail's expression is something special and Druzhinniks had a very special function in the social system of the Soviet Union! Best regards from Vienna Christian

Doc, many thanks for your commentary Ed, did comrade Grebenschchikova receive any other medals or orders as listed in Stalin's Order? Best regards Christian

Gentlemen, the organization and system of medical evacuation and treatment is a crucial point in any war and in any army. Despite the german propaganda and some stories from the Western Allies, the Red Army had a rather perfect and effective medical system, definitly superior to the german one and at least at the same level as US-Forces at WW II. Perfect medical evacuation and treatment had been also a source for the victory of the Red Army against the 3rd Reich. There had been also special regulations concerning awards for combat medics and stretcher bearers, whose work was accompanied by enormous risk to their own lives. On 23rd of august 1941 comrade Stalin himself signed the Order No. 281, "Concerning the procedure for recommending combat medics and stretcher bearers for government awards": "The following recommendations are implemented to encourage the combat efforts of medics and stretcher bearers: 1. Recommend the awarding of the medal "For Combat Service" or "For Valour" for each medic or stretcher bearer who carries fifteen wounded with their rifles or light machine guns fromt the battlefield; 2. .... Red Star .... 25 .... ; 3. .... Red Bannner .... 40 .... ; 4. .... Lenin .... 80 .... ." In addition to Stalin's Order the regulations of the "Order of Glory" from november 1943 say: "- while risking their life, rendered aid in the course of a battle to the wounded under enemy fire;" So, in my opinion the Glory for combat medics was an additional valour award to the above noted for numbers of saved comrades, because the regulations are much stiffer: - risking life - during the course of a battle (not after the battle!) - under enemy fire Among the 4 female Cavaliers of the Order of Glory there was Sergeant Major M. S. Nosdratsheva, who worked as a instructor-medic and fullfilled the above noted regulations for the Order of Glory at least 3 times. For example a Red Army comrade, who personally saved 90 comrades and 2 times (1944/45) under very risky conditions would have received: - Medal for Valour (or Combat Service) - Red Star - Red Banner - Lenin - Glory 3cl - Glory 2cl Best regards Christian Zulus

Thanks Christian

Would be great . Best regards Christian

Dear Ed, many thanks for your commentary. I have also heard, that the role of the Druzhinnika had been also to help tackle political and/or social uproar as auxiliary units for Militia and other forces. Do you have any evidence for that aspect? Best regards Christian

Evidence for the existence of ORB #7 & #8 Gentlemen, the two photographs, Simon posted at this thread, are for my opinion hard facts for the existence of ORBs #6+. So the statement at the "other" Soviet awards website, that no ORBs higher than #6 had been issued, might be wrong. As far as I can remember Prof. Eugene Rabkin was a strong supporter of the theory, that all ORB #7 & #8 are fakes, because they were never issued. O.K., it might be, that all of these ORBs at the market are fakes, but the photographs show, that they had been confered. Gentlemen, what is your point of view? Best regards Christian Zulus

Druzhinnik-ID-booklet: Cover & rv. of badge [attachmentid=58607]

Gentlemen, the voluntary Militia Auxiliary Units called "Peoples' Voluntary Druzhin" or "DND" had been established in 1959 in the Soviet Union. The members of these units wore no uniform, but civilian clothes with that special badge and had a special ID-booklet. Their task was specifically to help tackle rising hooliganism and alcoholism at national celebrations, soccer matches, pop concerts, etc. The example shows an ID-booklet from the late 1960s issued to Michail Igorevich Lavrentiev and the Druzhinnik-badge in the old form. Badges are rather common at the market, but Druzhinnik-ID-booklets rather rare. Best regards Christian Zulus [attachmentid=58606]

Year Soviet Army personnel began to wear decorations on suspension horizontally? Dear Simon, so Pstygo's ORB #8 might be in the shadow . Pstygo's photograph might be earlier, than 1988. In Dietrich Herfurth's first book about Soviet Military Awards, published in the GDR in 1987, you find on page 38 a nice photograph of Marshal Kulikov wearing his decorations on suspension horizontally and also wearing his HSU, he received in 1981. So Kulikov's photograph has to be shot between 1981 and 1987. On page 156 of Herfurth's old book you will find the regulations for wearing decoartions at the uniform and they are all horizontally. In the GDR-book: "Kleines Lexikon SOWJET-STREITKR?FTE" ("Small Encyclopadia of the Soviet Forces") from the year 1986 you will find on page 297 all uniforms with decorations on suspension horizontally. So the change in the regulations for wearing decorations in the Soviet Union has took part 1986 or before 1986. Do you have some sources about that topic, which would be helpful for the classification of photographs? Best regards Christian

Multiple dimensions in the hierarchy of Soviet Awards? Gentlemen, Simon posted some interesting remarks concerning hierarchy of orders in another thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=117914 Maybe the effective hierarchy of Soviet orders & medals could be seen not only 2-dimensional, but mulit-dimensional for the same time and the same period. Best regards Christian Zulus

Remarks to the photographs Gentlemen, when you take a closer look at the 7 ORBs of comrade Golubev (1st photograph), then you will make out, that the fifth ORB is NOT a ORB #5, but a blank ORB, followed by ORB #6 & ORB #7. The photograph of Pstygo is obviously from the late 1970s. I can make out 7 ORBs and from the second ORB on all with shields for the numbers. After the ORB #7 there is a lot of shadow at the photograph. Maybe there might be the ORB #8 in the shadow . Does anyone know, when comrade Pstygo received his ORB #8? Best regards Christian Zulus

Two ORB #7 on authentic photographs! Dear Simon, many thanks for your excerpt of the article about confering orders & medals, which corresponds exactly with the regulations of the different orders, i.e., Suvorov 3cl by front commanders, but ORB by army commanders. That is also an argument for the "inofficial hierarchy" of awards . Let us assume, that the Lenigrad Mint strucked and manufactured in the first batch only 10 ORBs #7, as stated in Durov's book. Maybe comrade Kozhedub should have been awarded with ORB #7 s/n. 11. Bad luck for him, because the mint run out of ORBs #7. So he receiveded an ordinary ORB. Just a theory . Many thanks for sharing two photographs of genuine ORB #7 with us . Would it be possible, to blow up the photographs, to have a closer look at the ORBs? Best regards Christian

Dear Soviet, Sasha's - retail - prices are at the same (a little bit high) level as Igor's recent prices at his website. Sasha works - as he told to me - as a wholesaler to dealers in the US and Europe, so his effective prices have to be considerable lower. Also in retail business as an good custumer you can calculate with a discount of about 10 % from the price - or even more -, what is rather usual in Europe, if you pay cash. Best regards Christian

Deer Steen, many thanks for your commentaries . If it is correct, that Skuba had been the commander of the famous 6th Guards Tank Brigade during the battle for Stalingrad, then his orders - 1x Lenin + 4x ORB - would make sense. I assume, that Skuba was promoted to the position of a commander of the tank and mechanized forces of the 4th Army DURING WW II. Such a position includes the rank of of a Major General. As you see in the history of the 4th Army, it was deployed in Iran - yes, a whole Soviet Army there (!) - and the function there, had been of great importance. I think, that comrade Skuba got his position in the 4th Army in spring/summer 1943 and promoted to Major General, due to his achievements during the battle for Stalingrad. Skuba was not a Colonel commanding a whole Soviet Army (2 cases in history) . Best regards Christian

Dear Dave, I think, that I have paid the double price for Skuba's ID-booklet . Best regards Christian

Lieber Gerd, great informations for the beginners , but the beginner has to have a lot of money for building up a "rather" comprehensive collection . It was easier 12 years ago to build up a nice collection ... For Europe Sasha (Alexandre Paretski) in Berlin is an excellent source for genuine pieces at rather moderate prices. Liebe Gr??e Christian

Wrapping salted herring in award citations Dear Simon, many thanks for your reply . Could you translate some crucial points of your source for us from russian to english ? I love salted herring, but would never wrap them in award citations . Your aspect - ORB = ORB and the receipients didn't care about the number (7 ORBs = 7 ORBs) - might be right. But what about comrade Kozhedub? He got 6 correct ORBs, but the 7th was without the number? Best regards Christian