Help from my British friends

[Douglas Jr.]

Hello folks,

I really need some help from our British members ...

Together with some fellow collectors we have been working in a research in order to classify all the medal's manufacturers of Brazilian decorations that were awarded to the Brazilian Expeditionary Force's veterans after World War Two.

For your knowledge, the Brazilian Expeditionary Force (in Portuguese: For?a Expedicion?ria Brasileira, or FEB) was the 25,300-man force formed by the Brazilian Navy, Army and Air Force that fought alongside the Allied forces in the Italian Campaign (attached to the 5th American Army) during the final stages of WWII. During eight months of the campaign, the Brazilian Expeditionary Force managed to take 20,573 Axis prisioners (two generals, 892 officers and 19,679 other ranks) and had 443 of its men KIA and more than 2,000 WIA.

In this sense, the lack of documentation from that period is our greatest obstacle and many times we have to rely on personal accounts from veterans or old collectors, which is not the best way to conduct a serious research.

One of the medals that are most intriguing is called "Sangue do Brasil" (Blood of Brazil), which was awarded to all military and civil personel that had sustained wounds in combat (similar to the American Purple Heart). A Governmental Decree introduced this medal on July 5th, 1945 and according to the "common sense" among the Brazilian collectors very few were made (some sources say only 500), although we are trying to settle the exact number. As a reference, I?m attaching below a picture of this particular decoration.

Concerning this medal, during conversation with an old collector/dealer, it was said that a British company made all "Sangue do Brasil" medals and Spink & Son was named as this one. Searching in the Internet, I found their website and sent an e-mail one month ago. No answer was received up to now...

However, as far as I could understand, Spink never manufactured any medals, as it has the antiques dealing (mainly numismatic and militaria) as its core business. Is this assumption correct?

After this brief explanation, I would like to have your help to confirm if Spink has ever produced any medal to a foreign Army, specially Brazil (and "Sangue do Brasil" medal), during the 1940s and/or 1950s. If so, it would be outstanding if any copy of documents related to such production can be provided. If it is not the case, is it possible to know if Spink has auctioned some of these medals recently?

I am looking forward for any help. Many thanks in advance for your attention and cooperation in this research.

Douglas.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Douglas Jr.

[Ulsterman]

No, Spinks do and have manufactured medals for many.many years-they are top notch world class numinists.

I grew up in their warehouse offices.

Their archives are a treasure chest-closely guarded by attractive young ladies who have NO interest in letting researchers into the files. However, a letter to the Director will get you a result.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Ulsterman

[Ed_Haynes]

Spink is and has always been (at least since the late 19th century) a MAJOR manufacturer of medals. They will never respond to queries regarding this and, if you get anything, it will be that all their records were destroyed in the Blitz. Not true, but it is a way to get rid of pesky collectors and even legitimate researchers.

Their auction website is not as good as DNW's (for example), and searching their old auctions online is vitrtually impossible. Their catalogues are too expensive and too irrelevant for me (they pretty much restrict their sale to medals to natives -- of the British Isles -- and have strong and negative attitudes toward medals to Indians).

[Khyber]

I can confirm Ed's comments on the attitude towards medals of "non British Isle natives". I was medal shopping during my government days and when I asked about IGS 54's to Indian units they were quite disdainful and suggested I buy books about medals if I could not afford the real ones.

Ron

[Douglas Jr.]

Thanks to both of you.

It seems that I am stuck in a dead end. However I think I should try to push a little bit further: can you send me the Director's e-mail address (by PM) ? It worth trying.

One more question: do they have any particular makers mark stamped in the medals they manufacture? Sorry, but I am not an expert on British medal makers...

Once more thanks a lot for your attention.

Douglas.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Douglas Jr.

[Michael Johnson]

Somewhere in Brazil's archives there must be a record of the purchase order.

[Ed_Haynes]

Somewhere in Brazil's archives there must be a record of the purchase order.

Yes, you'd be far better off looking in Brazilian records. Spink won't help.

[Douglas Jr.]

Somewhere in Brazil's archives there must be a record of the purchase order.

Well, we have been trying but the Army files are not easy to research either. The Federal Government left Rio de Janeiro for Brasilia in 1961 and God only knows what happened with the files concerning those medals (part of the Army files stayed in Rio and other documents went to Brasilia). And in Brazil usually is careless with such old documentaton.

And, in addition, they don?t left beautiful ladies there. Only a couple of ugly guys!

Douglas.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Douglas Jr.

[Ulsterman]

My cousin Rowena worked there in the early 1970s before going to Christies. Send a hand written letter to the Director. they are old fashioned and odds are the old man will say something like "You-underling-take care of this chap pleae"

[Douglas Jr.]

Ulsterman

Handwritten letter? THAT is old-fashioned! But I?ll try that.

Thanks once more.

Douglas.

[JBFloyd]

I have never seen any "Sangue do Brasil" maker-marked in any way, nor in a box/case that would indicate European manufacture. If any of the medals were war-time manufacture, I'd say that an Italian maker would be far more likely than Spink. After the war, perhaps Spink would be the source, but not mentioned in any source I've ever seen.

I have noted that there is fairly steady stream of "Sangue do Brasil" coming out of Germany, some from Hamburg and others through Hermann Historica. This has been regular over the past 10-12 years, so there may be a modern manufacturer out there now.

Edited August 30, 2006 by JBFloyd

[Douglas Jr.]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the information you provided. Concerning the "Sangue do Brasil", it is important to mention that the medal itself was not produced before September, 1945, as up to that date the final design had not been approved yet. In view of this, I personally do not think that any Italian maker had produced this award as the Brazilian troops left Italy in June/July 1945.

However, I was not aware that such medals has been regularly offered through German dealers. In Brazil, on the other hand, it is certain that no restrike was made, and the only medals around all belong to the original batch. Our doubts are, mainly, who were the manufactures and how many were made (we strongly think that more than 500 were produced). Up to now, the lack of documentation is our biggest problem concerning this research.

If I provide you a picture of a cased "Sangue do Brasil" would be possible to verify if it is a European made case?

Douglas.