Ribbon Bar with Turkish Awards

[Brian R]

I'm looking for help with the following bar...

Iron Cross 2nd Class 1914

1914-1918 Honor Cross with Swords

Red Eagle Order 4th Class

Turkish War Medal (Gallipoli Star)

Turkish Osmanie Order

While this is a mid-thirties bar, I am trying to get a better understand as to how the Turkish wards were won during the war. What, specifically, would a German officer have to do when serving with the Turks to win these awards - most notably, the Osmanie Order? In what branch of service did this bar's owner most likely serve?

Also of interest is the catch assembly on the reverse of this bar - I've never seen anything like it.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

[Brian R]

reverse...

[Tim Tezer]

An Osmanie Order without a Mejidie Order is a rarity, but not necessarily an impossibility. However, as the first two ribbons clearly indicate that the recipient was a combattant, I find it a little odd that he didn't also win the Liyakat medal. It seems to me that there would have been something in between the TWM and the Osmanie. Also, the placement of a TWM ahead of the Osmanie in order of precedence is unlikely, as the Osmanie was fairly prestigious. (To make a rough comparison to Prussian awards, the Mejidie knight's badge, which means 5th class, would be approximately equivalent to a Prussian Crown Order 4th class; the Osmanie knight's badge was a 4th class, and would be closer in equivalency to a Red Eagle Order, 3rd class. The Turkish War Medal would have ranked about a step lower than the Iron Cross 2nd class, so there is no real Prussian equivalent.)

Since the red color of the 4th ribbon is a little purplish, is it possible that that's not a Turkish War Medal at all? Perhaps a Hessen-Darmstadt Kriegsehrenzeichen, followed by maybe a Bavarian Jubilee Medal?

Tim

[Guest Rick Research]

The Red Eagle Order ribbon could be either a Red Eagle Order OR a General Decoration Medal, which is what NCOs got for the same basic "long service" sort of merit. With no German long service award on there, I'd say it is probably a Red Eagle Order 4 to an officer who got it at captain level rather than the normal Major, and squeaked out without an XXV Years Long Service Cross. An NCO would have been far more unlikely to have earned such an award and no long service since they had IX, XII, and XV years awards.

The Osmanie is almost certainly a pre-war peacetime award-- hence no sabers device on it. In which case, it correctly follows foreign wartime before peacetime award precedence.

In my eternal perusal of Rank Lists, a solo Osmanie without a Medjidie was much commoner in the navy than the army. Red Eagles at Kapit?nleutnant level were also much more common than for army Hauptleute.

So my immediate impression is that this was a naval officer's group...

but I find no active duty matches.

Absence of an 1897 Centenary Medal combined with finding no match in 1914 suggests someone like a naval reserve medical officer with rank but purely nominal "service" and hence no LD2 or LD1.

This is one of those cases where being unable to determine EXACTLY what the awards ARE (the 4th ribbon could indeed be several Things Hessian including a long service award) means finding somebody with no more than TWO "visible" awards is not very hopeful.

Looks like a perfectly good bar to me. Just an unusual "patent pending" sort of mounting that never caught on.

[David Gregory]

I think I have exactly the same combination as a sew-on ribbon bar, which is probably already packed up for a forthcoming move.

I'll post a scan when I can get to it.

[David Gregory]

This seems to be the same combination to be sewn to the uniform:

[attachmentid=54433]

[attachmentid=54434]

Perhaps there are more of these (navy?) guys around?

[Guest Rick Research]

I doubt it. I think you both have one each of the same original wearer's bars!!!

Nochmals mit "It's a small, small world!!!!...."

[Brian R]

Guys-

Thanks for the information (and sorry for taking so long to respond)

Rick is right - I seem to remember that there was more than one of these bars for sale at the time. David and I have bars from the same owner.

Brian

[Stogieman]

OK, you guys have to arm wrestle... winner takes all! ;>)

[Deruelle]

Very nice ribbon bars. But where is the medal bar ?

Christophe