For you the war is over...

[cabart13]

Greetings to ALL,

A while back I purchased some WWI British badges at a flea market in Germany. These badges were from British POW's. Very interesting.

1 of 5

v/r

Dat Nguyen

[cabart13]

Greetings to ALL,

A while back I purchased some WWI British badges at a flea market in Germany. These badges were from British POW's. Very interesting.

2 of 5

v/r

Dat Nguyen

[cabart13]

Greetings to ALL,

A while back I purchased some WWI British badges at a flea market in Germany. These badges were from British POW's. Very interesting.

3 of 5

v/r

Dat Nguyen

[cabart13]

Greetings to ALL,

A while back I purchased some WWI British badges at a flea market in Germany. These badges were from British POW's. Very interesting.

4 of 5

v/r

Dat Nguyen

[cabart13]

The badges in photos 1-3 were attached to a German field postcard. The German Officer name was blackened out but it is still barely legible.

5 of 5

v/r

Dat Nguyen

[Guest Rick Research]

Very interesting indeed!

I wonder from the "Station F" written on each card if they are for intelligence purposes and not personal souvenirs collected by a guard.

N.O. 4 of Armeeoberkommando 4 would be Nachrichten Offizier, Abteilung 4 (whatever that was)... but probably intelligence rather than signals.

These may be a "haul" of prisoners all gathered up at one time on a specific stretch of front.

The closest thing I have seen to this was years and years ago, a large board with Tsarist Russian officer shoulder boards labelled in German as to ranks and regiments.

It will be extremely interesting to see if our WW1-British experts can FIND these specific officers and provide some background. Best bet is probablythat somebody can say where and how the two flyers were captured.

[cabart13]

I've paid a few bucks to have a few of these officers researched...

Lt Lewis was flying a Nieuport Scout No. BL625 type 23 on Offensive Patrol when he went missing on July 12, 1917.

I think that LT Strickland was a observer/gunner(?) on another plane when he went missing.

I would realy like to find any of these officers relatives because I think that they would appreciate these items much more than me.

Dat Nguyen

[Guest Rick Research]

"Missing" as in NOT prisoners, dead?

So these were removed from officers' bodies in an attempt to ascertain enemy Order Of Battle?

[cabart13]

"Missing" as in NOT prisoners, dead?

So these were removed from officers' bodies in an attempt to ascertain enemy Order Of Battle?

No I don't think so because a few of these officers that I've researched survived the war and was repatriated back to the UK. I used the term "missing" because the RFC Report on Casualties to Personnel and Machines (When Flying) stated: Pilot left Aerodrome 7.15.pm. 12.7.17. Not since been heard of.

This report was for LT Harold Morgan Lewis.

Dat Nguyen

[Guest Rick Research]

Aha! I just found in Moser's "Die W?rttemberger im Weltkrieg" ("Das Bayernbuch" primly avers, at least as far as being admitted In Print goes, that THEY had absolutely no Intelligence Section in their General Staff/War Ministry organizations at all, oh ha ) that

Abteilung 4 of their Section IIc (Abwehr- und Sicherungs-Abteilung) was for

"Verbindungsoffiziere, Abwehr- und Nachrichtendienst bei Kriegsgefangenen, Fahnefl?chtige."

So Oberleutnant Blotted-Out would have been the senior intelligence officer and these were sent back for OoB evaluation.

VERY VERY INTERESTING INDEED.

[Tony]

These are fantastic.

I wonder why the German doing the writing called them badges instead of Abzeichen or something similar.

Tony

[cabart13]

Greeting to ALL,

Well 2017 is a great year for my badge projects:

2LT Weatherill Abbott Strickland

RE8 Gunner/Observer - 57 SQN "forced to land" with 2LT Griffith 12JUL17

 

2LT Harold Morgan Lewis 

Nieuport 23 Fighter Pilot - 29 SQN - shot down 12JUL17 by Oberleutnant Dostler

 

Both were first interned at a POW camp in Ingelmunster, Belgium ... Station F

 

First photo is Mrs. Skelding, grand daughter of 2LT Strickland, with her grandfather's badge.

Second photo is Mrs. Wolstenholme, daughter of 2LT Lewis, with her father's badge.

 

Took a while to locate the relatives through findmypast.com and ancestry.com ... I even ordered Lewis' will through gov.uk to locate Mrs. Wolstenholme. 

Almost 100 years, but the badges made it back to the families.

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by cabart13
Duplicate photo

[coldstream]

A fantastic result, well done !

Simon

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello.

I can only echo Simon's post.

Bernhard H. Holst

[Jock Auld]

Good effort Mate!

Shame about the post cards as that is interesting enough in that context. Perhaps you can replace them with originals to preserve that aspect of the history?

[cabart13]

With the exception of 2LT Houghton (gunner/observer) , all other Officers families have been identified. I am in the process of contacting Lt Davies (pilot) family ... the German mispelled his name as Davis ... 2Lt Burns (pilot) and 2Lt Houghton were crew members on the same plane. Burns, Houghton, and Davies were members of 20 SQN and shot down 29 APR 1917 ... 2LT Forrest was infantry and got captured on 28 APRIL 1917 leading a trench patrol.

I planned to purchase similar badges as you suggested Jock to preserve the project.

Dat

[cabart13]

Greetings to All ...

Well this project has come to a delightful end. We managed to locate the Davies and Burns families ... Found out that Lt. Davies was a gunner/observer; not a pilot as previously reported ... Both Lt Burns and Lt Davies were in the same formation that got shot down on 29 APR 1917 ... even got provenance linking all the POW's badges that were mounted on the post cards ...

Here is Martin Davies; Lt Davies oldest son ... and Jane Sewell's hand; Lt Burns grand daughter; she is camera shy

Lt Burns managed to keep a secret journal while in captivity and retyped it when he got released. I always wondered how Lt. Forrest; infantry, got in the mix with three RFC aviators' badges on the post cards ... looks like they were in the same POW camps for the initial interrogation before being transferred off the front line.

[cabart13]

Lt Burns

[peter monahan]

Wonderful stuff!  Given the state of aviation technology, the fact that two crews both survivied being shot down strikes me as noteworthy and to be able to get this knd of info. on the men, their experiences and their families is golden.  Thank you for sharing!