Fake Fake Orders and medals database

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Jim,

sorry, my mistake .

I put my commentaries to a new thread and "cleaned" also my "Labor Glory 1cl" reply.

Best regards

Christian

[JimZ]

[attachmentid=57929] [attachmentid=57930] [attachmentid=57931]

Here is the other lab glory 1 selling without booklet. I absolutely hate the patina on the reverse (which seems polished possibly to remove that 3rd class Var 1 serial number). Hand engraved numbers seem too large but you cannot hold that against the engraver....or can you?! Too much vodka when he engraved the number so close to the rivets... I do not think so!! The Enamel looks heavy and dark. Of course its not that easy to call... and the serial number on this piece is not overboard either... BUT as this is the brother of the one I listed earlier.... I'd still stay clear away from this piece.

Edited October 22, 2006 by jimzammit

[JimZ]

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By far not an expert on the Nakhimov medal as I have yet to buy this medal. But lets hit the PMD description of observed originals. My count of the dots on the obverse and reverse does not tally with the original. Fake! Unless of course there should there be evidence of variations, then this prima facae test is rather effective! And of course may I add that at first glance I do not like the suspension ring itself.

[JimZ]

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Fake 20 Year of RKKA medal above. Please note the suspension ring with small (drilled hole), the big rays beneath the enamel (which should be much finer) and the enamel itself. The texture of the medal is of course very wrong and far too rough under magnification Its not a distressed medal but a cast one!! - Its got a great many things not going for it.... including the "gold plating" on the #20 (XX)!!!!

Edited October 23, 2006 by jimzammit

[JimZ]

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To the best of my knowledge the Order of Friendship of Peoples had not been faked.... Yet I came across this piece. Admittedly the pic of the obverse is not clear enough but the lettering, sickle and hammer and the green wreath as well as the rays in the red star are not convincing. The gold also looks flat. I do not believe any variations of this order to exist at least none I have read about or come across. As a result of the points that I mentioned I think that this piece already does not add up.

What does however concern me most and what looks completely wrong in this piece is the riveting on the obverse. Either the medal was taken apart and the 'valuable' pieces removed and replaced....or its some bogus manufacture from scratch.

All I can say is - stay away from this particular piece and any others with similar rivet work. If anyone has more info on fakes or copies of the Order of Friendship of Peoples please post. This is the first time I came across one like this!!

[JimZ]

[attachmentid=58434] [attachmentid=58435]

Plausible number but fake fake fake in my books!

Obverse: Shoddy enemal, shoddy gold plating, CCCP letters too small for banner. Suspension ring looks like it was added on. Hammer and sickle are wrong

Reverse: The profile is wrong and fits in what I believe to be a line of fakes. Greater definition on the Var 1 and Var 2 pieces than on this piece. Flash makes it hard to properly observe texture of medal but I doubt this is even silver and if so, its probably cast.

As always....one man's opinion on these uncommon pieces that so often keep sprouting to nab uninformed buyers.

Oh...did I say i think its fake

[JimZ]

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3 campaign medals displayed in another thread thread.

Stay away from campaign medals marked as duplicates. These do not officially exist and awardees receiving any catchup awards or issued with a duplicate/replacement would infact have received the Var 3 medal characterised by its heavy gold wash.

This mark is one of the easiest to fake. So treat numbered duplicates with caution and more importantly stay away from bobgus duplicate campaign medals

To check out this thread and valuable comments and pics re other duplictae awards in their full context pls refer to: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12346&st=0

[JimZ]

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It is one thing to sell a copy as a copy. Granted. Gap filler (if you believe in something like that!!!!! I don't!!)What really gets me angry is if some were to buy a copy and resell it as an original. Not saying this has happenned here. But I do think that documents do add an aura of authenticity to an award and someone starting out can easily think of the 'bargain' being made by buying something of the sort thinking "Hey its a $100 as opposed to........"

Let it be documented that the above piece is a copy and let us hope if it ever changes hands then it does so as a copy and nothing more. Its an easy mistake to make for someone just starting out and wanting a short cut into the deep end of russian awards and medals!

[JimZ]

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The same applies here. A copy is a copy is a copy! Always and forever....with or without docs. Amen.

[JimZ]

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[attachmentid=60901][attachmentid=60903]

And again.......

[JimZ]

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[attachmentid=60909][attachmentid=60910]

..... and yet again. Fully documented copy.......

Edited November 14, 2006 by jimzammit

[JimZ]

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13X,XXX - Original order falling in unissued range of serial numbers. Usually in mint condition but obviously unresearchable if never awarded!! .... Still.....one of the loveliest orders........

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Jim,

I have two beautiful "Crabs" - 3cl & 2cl - unissued and with a genuine orders booklet but faked entries .

Here is the link to the orders booklet:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=114480

Best regards

Christian

[JimZ]

[attachmentid=60969] [attachmentid=60967] [attachmentid=60968]

Yet another one....different number and doc to the last one of these I posted. They're out there.......watch out as they are not always sold as copies or fakes.

Amazing how once you get started on the subject of fakes it seems like its a whole world to itself! But when money is involved its to be sadly expected. I just hope someone finds these posts of some use.

Regards,

Jim

[Gerd Becker]

Its absolutely of use, Jim. When you see, how many people still bid on this crap on ebay... Oh my...

[JimZ]

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[attachmentid=60996] [attachmentid=60997]

More......

Edited November 15, 2006 by jimzammit

[JimZ]

[attachmentid=60998] [attachmentid=60999]

And again more.......

[JimZ]

[attachmentid=61000] [attachmentid=61001]

And more!! I find these "fascinating" as they are documented fakes.....always an upgrade!!

At least the serial numbers noted are recorded here......although I am sure each time the doc and ODM will appear with a different number.

[JimZ]

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[attachmentid=61344] nubered 1604 - no photo of reverse

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All three classes of Service to the motherland up for grabs. Not sure of the manufacture of these and if some parts are perhaps original or this is a whole fabrication from scratch. However........

[JimZ]

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.....take a look at the white enamel. I have put 2 originals (one worn and used and one near mint) on the top and the three fakes from above in the red box. Compare the enamel and you wil notice that the reflection of the light gives away the poor quality of the 'enemal' work. I believe that larger pics would have revealed many more inconsistencies but alas, these never came.

[Christian Zulus]

(Genuine) Motherland 2cl s/n. 1.604 in my collection

Dear Jim,

besides the two crabs with the doctored OK, I have also the Motherland 2cl. s/n. 1.604 in my modest collection.

My (genuine) piece looks completly different to your posted scans with perfect enamel and so on. My piece might be an issued order .

It looks, that the forgers use issued s/n. for their fakes .

Best regards

Christian

Edited November 19, 2006 by Christian Zulus

[JimZ]

(Genuine) Motherland 2cl s/n. 1.604 in my collection

My (genuine) piece looks completly different to your posted scans with perfect enamel and so on. My piece might be an issued order .

Both the 2 upper pics in my scan are genuine Orders of Service to the Motherland 3rd Class which are well within the issued range. The upper left hand one is in my posession with documented research. The ones in the lower red boxes are the fakes currently on sale.

The comparison is made solely to show the quality of the white enemal which instantly indicated the inferior quality of these three pieces.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Jim,

yes, I realized, that the upper pics are genuine.

I am referring to the scan of the the 2cl in the posting of you before.

Who is offering "my" Motherland 2cl?

Best regards

Christian

Both the 2 upper pics in my scan are genuine Orders of Service to the Motherland 3rd Class which are well within the issued range. The upper left hand one is in my posession with documented research. The ones in the lower red boxes are the fakes currently on sale.

The comparison is made solely to show the quality of the white enemal which instantly indicated the inferior quality of these three pieces.

[JimZ]

Enjoy.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Orden-Fuer-den-Dienst-i...1QQcmdZViewItem

Jim

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Jim,

many thanks for the link .

At least EUR 10,- for a Motherland 2cl is very moderate . Two years ago I paid for s/n. 1.604 about USD 350,- at my dealer in Vienna, but for the genuine one ...

Best regards

Christian

Enjoy.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Orden-Fuer-den-Dienst-i...1QQcmdZViewItem

Jim