Soviet Order of the Red Star - 6 digits

[Bryan]

I have 2 Orders of the Red Star in the 6 digits range. My lowest is much thinner than the highest one. The highest number as the same construction as 7 digits Orders of the Red Star. Is there kind of a number range where they stopped to make the thinner Order of the Red Star?

#1 Order of the Red Star #380504

#2 Order of the Red Star #733879

[Riley1965]

Soviet,

Are you referring to thinner red enamel or the silvet part of the star?

Doc

[Bryan]

No I'm not talking only about enamel but the size of the stars rays. See picture below.

[Alfred]

Bryan,

I think somewhere around 470.000 the edges od the red star changes.

regards

Andreas

[Riley1965]

Bryan,

I was just trying to clarify what you were referring to. Yes, Alfred is correct. At that general serial number range the ORS changed as shown. I'll check my research for the variation type. I hope that Alfred and I could be of help?!!

Doc

Edited October 8, 2006 by Riley1965

[Riley1965]

Bryan,

Here's the difference:

#1 Order of the Red Star #380504 is a Type 2, Flat Star edges, no screwpost base

#2 Order of the Red Star #733879 is a Type 2, Flared star edges, no screwpost base

Both have Monetny Dvor mint mark, staright and written in two lines.

Doc

[Gerd Becker]

Bryan,

Here's the difference:

#1 Order of the Red Star #380504 is a Type 2, Flat Star edges, no screwpost base

#2 Order of the Red Star #733879 is a Type 2, Flared star edges, no screwpost base

Both have Monetny Dvor mint mark, staright and written in two lines.

Doc

Doc,

i disagree. All the Red Stars of these variations, i have seen, the ones, i own and both Stars, Bryan shows, had a slightly curved up mint mark, not straight. Take a look on the soviet screwbacks website for further info:

http://www.soviet-screwbacks.com/index.html

best,

Gerd

[Bryan]

Bryan,

I think somewhere around 470.000 the edges od the red star changes.

Thanks Alfred, that is what I was looking for!

[Riley1965]

Gerd,

I see what appears to be a slight upward turn at the end of the word. Based on serial number ranges as well as my earlier statements, I stick by my observations with the change of "Slightly curved mint matk".

Doc

Edited October 9, 2006 by Riley1965

[Riley1965]

I looked at the website. It is an excellent site!! However,I find it in error with regards to the Order of the Red Star. There are only 3 Types of the Order of the Red Star with Type 2 having 7 variations. The website says that there are 6 Types. The three Types are:

Type 1- Goznak mint mark

Type 2- 7 variations

Type 3- Three rivet construction

Please see this article: http://www.soviet-awards.com/digest/redstar/RedStar1.htm

It is a basic primer on the ORS. There is an error in it. I said that there are 8 variations of Type 2 instead of 7 variations. I will list all 7 variations of the ORS or the article will show them. If you are still not convinced ... PLEASE re-read your PMD as this ORS primer contains the pictures from Paul McDaniel.

All the Best,

Doc

Edited October 9, 2006 by Riley1965

[Gerd Becker]

Doc,

its true, the website takes a different approach to the classification of the Red Stars, but they were right, everytime i checked one of my screwback orders there. Its more an addition to the PMD-system than a replacement. PMD just didn?t go this deep into the topic, but classified the ORS more generally.

Could it be, there is a little mistake with one of the pictures in your article? Fig. 10 shows an earlier type than described in the text, if i am not mistaken. But all in all a well done article, congrats.

Here is a good picture of a "curved up mint mark". Both words are sligtly curved upwards.

[Riley1965]

Gerd,

First, Thanks for the kind words about my article. I kept it basic for the new collector. As for fig.10 it should be a Monetny Dvor mint mark, flared edges, No screwpost base. As for the ORS section in the PMD I'll leave things alone. The PMD has served me, and many others, well over the years. I'm not ready to re-invent the wheel.

All the Best,

Doc

[Gerd Becker]

Gerd,

First, Thanks for the kind words about my article. I kept it basic for the new collector. As for fig.10 it should be a Monetny Dvor mint mark, flared edges, No screwpost base. As for the ORS section in the PMD I'll leave things alone. The PMD has served me, and many others, well over the years. I'm not ready to re-invent the wheel.

All the Best,

Doc

Doc,

its not reinventing the wheel to enhance the existing systems and to further research the facts about an order more than a book was able to do, which was written, when internet wasn?t that common, when the communication between the collectors was on a much smaller level and next to nothing was known about Soviet orders and medals to the western world. But thousands of new facts came to light in the last 9 years and dozens of new variations and subvariations were found since then.

The Red Star is one of my favourite orders and i try to get a few variations together, so i want to know as much as possible about this order and the Soviet Screwback website is much more detailed than the McDaniel/Schmitt book and so IMHO the best resource to gather info about a particular variation.

This is absolutely not meant as a disrespect to the McDaniel/Schmitt book, which is a fantastic resource and i have learned most of my basic knowledge from this book. But of course they were not able to cover everything or have seen every variation, when they wrote this book. This hobby is evolving and one has to keep up with the available info.

A very good and detailed online-resource are the Mondvor-website (hopefully in english too soon)

www.mondvor.narod.ru and for screwback-orders the website mentioned above.

best regards,

Gerd

Edited October 9, 2006 by Gerd Becker