Soviet RKKA medal

[ilja559]

Medal and dok

[ilja559]

Dok

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Ilja,

impressive documents and rather high decorated comrade: Lenin, RB, etc.

At first sight - scans are rather bad - the medal looks o.k. to me. I have 2 - genuine - RKKA-medals in my collection and both of them look rather similar to your scan.

The crucial points with the RKKA-medal are:

- precision of detail (struck, not casted!)

- typical patina

- enamel of the red star and the precise relief under the red star

- weight (silver, no scrap)

Best regards

Christian

[ilja559]

Hi,Christian.The medal of this person was with bad enamels and the seller has give me another original medal with good enamel.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Ilja,

the old story: Genuine documents + faked medal or the other way round .

Best regards

Christian

[ilja559]

This medal not faked.I now this seller so long time.May be bad skans.

[Christian Zulus]

No, I just mentioned, that the first medal - with the bad enamel - the dealer offered you, was a fake.

This medal, you show to us, is - as far as I can judge it - genuine.

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, the first one probably was fake.

The second one seems to be a mis-match and NOT the medal of the guy whose impressive documents you have. A marriage made in hell. These things are not for mix-and-match.

Sigh . . . .

Nice documents, though!

A shame his medals -- all of them -- have disappeared.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Ed,

no, that medal shown in the scan matches with the last photograph of comrade major, where we see the 5-sided suspension.

It is a pity, that there are no serial numbers for this sort of medal .

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

Sure, but there was a serial number before it got remounted and there is ownership even for unnumbered medals. Absent solid provenance, you never know.

Just hate to see real groups get broken up and replaced by manufactured (faked) "neo-groups". It happens, alas, in all phaleristic fields.

[Christian Zulus]

O.K., that's not the comrade's genuine medal, but the serial number was not at the medal.

You are right, from a ethic viewpoint it is NOT correct to exchange - also unnumbered - medals in a documented group.

Best regards

Christian

[ilja559]

Ed,can You tell on it a photo, an original medal this or not? Thanks.Ilja

[JimZ]

I think its hard to say whether an RKKA medal has come with its genuine docs or not....unless of course there is the matching serial number on the screwback plate and even then....screwpaltes are interchangeable. As I know it all the XX year medals were issued with the rectangular suspension and later converted by awardees themselves in 1943 when the regulations were changed. Sadly, most would have gone onto a 5 sided suspension with no screwback plate and no serial number....and hence became close to anonymous.

However, with the story of your dealer switching medals, you can rest assured that what u have is, as Ed says "a marriage made in hell". Of course you have booklet and medal and can even pull it off that way but I find its a pity when u own something that you know a priori is not the proper medal. I would not buy from such a dealer if I knew he was playing around with medals unless I am sure of what i am buying!

If you want feedback regarding whether or not the medal may be genuine I suggest you put much closer zoomed pics of obverse and reverse and maybe some members may volonteer to voice their opinions. Christian mentions valid points but I think usually 1) the "relief" under the enemal and 2) the "precision of detail" are usual noticeable giveaways. However do bear in mind that this is a vary desirable medal and as always with such medals, highly faked. And the quality of fakes is getting better by the day. So its hard to really tell from a pic in any case.

Jim

[ilja559]

Thanks,Jim