Naval Land Forces

[artofwar]

Hi Glenn & Rick,

Many thanks for your assistance, you have both added info that I did not have.

I have most of his papers, promotion patents etc, and award documents and decoration for the Hohenzollern House Order. I did not have his urkunde showing he was awarded the Saxon Albert Order.

His Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th Class with swords was warded March 12th, 1912.

He received the Kolonialdenkmunze mit spange - DEUTSCH-OSTAFRIKA 1905-07 for his role in the Maji-Maji Rebellion in East Africa. He is also mentioned in a book I had translated and published in a limited edition of 300 copies, in 2005, called ' GERMAN SCHUTZTRUPPE IN EAST AFRICA 1889-1905 - A History of the Imperial Protectorate Force German East Africa" by Ernst Nigmann. ( A few copies still available. )

appended below is the translation from Walter Nuhn's book on the 1905-07 Maji-Maji Revolt.

The Morogoro Naval-Infantry Detachment ( part of a 150 man Seebattalion force sent from Germany )

Commander Leutnant Engelbrecht

Strength 1 Officer, 4 NCOs, 28 Men, 1 Surgeon

Arrival 30. September 1905: Cruiser "Bussard" to Bagamojo, and from there by caravan

Relief for the Schutztruppe unit under Captain von Wangenheim

The Naval-Infantry Detachment had a most arduous trip: by ship to Bagamojo

and from there by caravan to Morogoro , which wasn't reached until 30. September 1905.

After Schutztruppe-Captain von Wangenheim left the station, the detachment didn't launch an expedition to Kilossa until after 10. November 1905 , because of the threatening situation. However, the expedition only reached Mkata.

On 22. November 1905, the governor ordered the detachment transferred to Mpapua. It was relieved there on 04. December 1905 and transferred again, this time to Kiboriani, which was reached on 18. December 1905 . The detachment remained there until it returned home.

Again, all your info much appreciated, am trying to reconstitute his complete group. I am a relative newcomer to Imperial German, am collecting papers, documents and groups, 1860 to 1918, and just beginning tto learn plus buy research volumes. ( so mny tat I need ) I have been primarily collecting French, Italian & US groups, 1850's to present.

Bob

[Regulus1]

This is really great information on the man ! Do you also have a photo of him ?

[Guest Rick Research]

That's BMV4 without swords in 1912.

Given his position, I was surprised that he didn't get a Baden Z?hringen Lion Order during the war.

Well, he did. It was 1 AM so I needed my beauty sleep, but here it is.

The late Erhard Roth made a mistake in his published roll and entered the unit designation of the officer ABOVE Engelbrecht in his roll published by Michael Autengruber.

As you can see from the original roll, copied here

the format used IDIOTICALLY for the wartime Z?hringen Roll wastes 99% of the page space. While their Military Karl Friedrich Order and Medal roll quite neatly (and legibly with large writing) simply listed each name/rank/unit/date in a line across, the MORON who dreamt up this nightmare Z?hringen Lion format made what could ONLY be a CHECKLIST format. NONE of the entries actually use the printed "with oakleaves," "with Xs," "plain" columns-- everything is simply entered at the far right of each CLASS entry. So there are, literally "no" entries for "with oakleaves" and all that has to be deduced from the recipients' ranks.

The date numbers (which are generally nothing but ditto marks ") and the letters after the last name are 1mm high this is SO small that the letters simply run into the previous stroke in microscopic blurs-- aside from the spots and dribbles all over-- Roth apparently mistaking "..." for " " ".

Engelbrecht's entry (anyone with the published Roth volume should correct his entry) ACTUALLY says

"Hptm u 1. Adj..." but if you can "read" what follows, you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din. Divstab? See..stab? Infbat?

OBVIOUSLY, since Roth simply abandoned the Z?hringen rolls in June 1918, leaving off the last 900-odd entries (which make the page section shown from 1916 look clear as a bell), and from the absolute impossibility of doing ANYTHING with XEROXES of HORRIBLE original roll pages too large to scan in their entirety (there are pencilled comments in a far right column which will prove VERY useful regarding returns, dated into the 1940s-- 99.9% of which are TOTALLY illegible, copied)

what is required is that somebody live, on the spot, go to the archive in Karlsruhe and RE-DO the Roth roll

from the original pages

in the Daniel-&-Ricky-Format, of course.

I nominate Sascha W, who should begin IMMEDIATELY.

[artofwar]

Thanks again, Rick,

My mistake in typing the Bavarian MVO, you are right, without swords.

Thanks a bunch for the info on the Baden order. very much appreciated.

As I am terribly new to Imperial German, is there some basic work or works I can read to start understanding the orders award system, like how did you know he had a Baden decoration ?? This is all very overwhelming for me. Just beginning to collect rangelists and stuff like that.

So far I usually have been collectring Militarpass's to enlisted and NCO with very simple medal entitlements. I am only interested in theaters of war out side of the Western Front normally. altho I have a soft spot for Flanders division stuff. Also very interested in Austro-Hungarian items.

any suggestions gratefully received.

Bob

[Guest Rick Research]

If you are lucky enough to have his own personal copy of his "Auszug aus der Kriegsrangliste," a legal-sized 4 page paper listing all his personal and career details, that will have a complete listing of all his awards with dates as well as a day by day listing of his service (and things like his mother's maiden name and when he was out on sick leave). We are almost never that lucky.

Most Orders were given by rank rather than degree of merit. Captains got a Knight 2nd Class with Oakleaves of the Baden OZL, just as 2nd Lts to Captains got a 4th Class of the Bavarian MMO.

The whys and wherefores of officers' awards are a confusing but understandable two-tier system. While Officer X might have to slog along for 25 years to get his home state's basic recognition, Officer Y, who saluted in an honor guard or lit a cigar for the Exalted Personage at some officers' mess party got the same thing for 2 minutes "work."

In Engelbrecht's case, he was a long-term 1st Sea Battalion officer, and the

King of Saxony far far from the seas

Grand Duke of Baden ditto

and a variety of other party-uniformed royals nominally "attached" to that unit often dropped in for a whiskey and smokes and passed out gongs to familiar faces among "their" outfit's attentive officers. (Thinking of faces-- another example would be Tsar Ferdinand of Bulgaria's bisexual fascination with blonds, much remarked upon at the time. So when we find an "inexplicable" seemingly random award to a German officer... at least we know his hair color! )

In his staff job with the Marinekorps, I would also expect Engelbrecht to have been decorated by Oldenburg, and likely at least one of the Hanseatic Cities.

Because headquarters types stood a far greater chance of being personally recognized than the poor slobs out in the trenches.

I've got a Marine Divison Orderly Officer's group which includes a Turkish language award document for their War Medal star-- and he never left the Belgian coast!!!! But the visiting Pasha came by and...

which is what makes knowing COMPLETE awards so difficult for a headquarters type like Engelbrecht, without his Auszug.

All we've got to work from are the known rolls that have been transcribed so far, and the experience of knowing what OTHER officers in similar positions got in the course of their careers.

[ccj]

This has become an interesting topic for me. Does anyone have uniform items to share or know how I can find the combat records of the seabataillon or Marinekorps-Flandern?

 

 

[ccj]

What type belt would this officer wear with this tunic?

[Hedgecore138]

The belt would be either black or brown, depending on the officer's preference. The buckle would be after the 1902 style, for officers of the Kaiserliche Marine. The belt in the image is the dress Schärpe, which in most likelihood would have only been worn with the pre-war blue uniform.

 

 

[dante]

Some interesting information in this English language book, My Dear little Clara!: 1914 Letters from a lieutenant of the German Imperial Marine Reserve 1st Imperial Marine infantry Regiment by Goutsmit, The narrative of Lieutenant Julius Schödensack of the German Imperial Marine Infantry about his war in Belgium 1914-18

 

Nice portrait of a Marine infantry soldier  

 

[ccj]

Thanks