WW1 ROSS RIFLE >>the worst design ?

[Mike]

Stopped by an Antique shop yesterday and found a Ross ..It came out of a Local Estate Sale ..they found it in the Attic and didn't have a chance to clean it or even figure out what it was.

Ater reading stories about these over the years , I thought I'd pick it up since ..it does have quite a reputation attached to the name,

Not sure if I'm keeping it though since WW1 is not really my main focus ..one thing for sure , I won't be taking it out on the Range

[Mike]

I read that many of these were shipped to the UK right after Dunkirk for Home Guard use . They must have been thrilled when they issued these ..talk about instilling confidence

[Mike]

Straight pull Bolt Action --

[Mike]

Here's some background from the Web ---

Serious problems with reliability included failures to extract a fired case, and constant jamming of the bolt due to field debris. Many troops were killed by the enemy while attempting to clear malfunctions.

Another extremely undesirable fault was that after disassembling the bolt, it could be incorrectly reassembled. In that case the rifle would pick up a round and chamber it, and the extractor would hold the round against the bolt face, but the seven large locking lugs would not be in battery. The striker would be cocked, and if the trigger were pulled the rifle would fire with the bolt unlocked. Several cases are recorded of serious injury or death from bolt blowback.

Soldiers Regarded the Ross as more of a threat to their lives than the Kaiser's soldiers, the troops threw away their Ross rifles en masse at the earliest opportunity, snatching up Lee Enfields from dead Tommys. The Ross was withdrawn from service in 1915 and replaced by the Lee Enfield.

It did establish a very good record for accuracy, winning the English 1000 yard Bisley Match three times consecutively. Many Ross Rifles also saw service in the Russian Army, and it was used with great success by them in the Olympics in a modified form and caliber (7.62 x 54R) as a moving event type target rifle. It was also retained for several years, with good results, as a specialized sniper weapon by the Canadian Army.

This locking system is very strong and the same as used on heavy artillery pieces. To operate the action the user only has to smartly pull the bolt handle straight back and then shove it forward. This simple movement unlocks the lugs, extracts and ejects the empty case on the rearward stroke, then chambers a new cartridge and locks the bolt closed on the forward stroke. It is very fast and smooth to operate. There is a safety lever conveniently mounted on the top of the bolt handle. A rivet was put into late production bolts to prevent incorrect assembly and solve the bolt blowback problem, but this came far too late. The rifle had already earned its infamous reputation by then.

Canadian weapons were also used by Home Guard units in the Second World War, notably the notorious Ross rifle.

[Mike]

sight

[Mike]

They had a very strange way of numbering and dating them , stamping the Stock ...And it looks like they were re-issued and re-numbered quite often --

[peter monahan]

Part of the Ross Rifle story has to be the pre-war background:

It was a superb rifle for accuracy and won many shooting competions and continued to be used by some snipers throughout War One. Unfortunately, it was far too delicate in the working parts for trench conditions, specifically: very prone to jamming if not 100% clean. I've dismantled one myself - once - and re-assembled it with some trepidation because, along with the blowback problem it is in theory possible to mis-assemble it so the bolt locks SHUT on an empty barrel, at which point of course one owns a heavy stick.

I suspect that the jamming issue was far more a problem than blowbacks because I can't conceive that any training sergeant would let his charges not learn the correct way! Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but trained men would be far far less likely to do it than my friend and I (his Ross) in a basement with beer.

The real issue for the Cdn Army was that the Ross Rifle was championed by Sir Sam Hughes, Minister of Militia. The same guy who tried to have himself awarded the VC for his stirling work (in Canada) on the war effort and who promoted the entrenching shovel with the hole in the middle of the blade - for use as a sniper shield. Duhhh!

Hughes insisted that it be the Ross or nothing and so got a bunch of our boys killed.

Modern views of Sam are summed up by local legend in Lindsay, Ontario where both he and my wife grew up. It now has a college called "Sir Sandford Fleming College" after the inventor of time zones. However one early (apocryphal) name suggestion was the Sam Hughes Institute of Technology, not because he deserved but becasue the initials - S.H.I..." would nicely sum up Sam Hughes.

Edited December 3, 2006 by peter monahan

[Guest Rick Research]

Is there any way to get all remaining stocks of these smuggled into Iraq?

[Mike]

Modern views of Sam are summed up by local legend in Lindsay, Ontario where both he and my wife grew up. It now has a college called "Sir Sandford Fleming College" after the inventor of time zones. However one early (apocryphal) name suggestion was the Sam Hughes Institute of Technology, not because he deserved but becasue the initials - S.H.I..." would nicely sum up Sam Hughes.

Thanks Peter ...that was a great post.

I really thought there'd be more Collectors out there interested in the Ross story ..seems to have slipped through the cracks of time I guess .

[Mike]

Is there any way to get all remaining stocks of these smuggled into Iraq?

Ya know ...I LIKE the way you think Rick !!!

[peter monahan]

Thanks Peter ...that was a great post.

I really thought there'd be more Collectors out there interested in the Ross story ..seems to have slipped through the cracks of time I guess .

Mike

They're quite collectable up here north of the 49th! If you can get it to a show or dealer in Canada you'll surely make a few bucks anyway.

Peter

[Mike]

On one of the Gun Auction sites I found one with a "Buy It Now" price of $800 ...is that the going rate in Canada as well ?

I'm not sure if I'm going to keep it or not since my focus is mainly WW2 ----Although being around THIS Forum has "Expanded" my view of things a bit .

There's more to Life than just RZM ...I'll have to think about it

[peter monahan]

On one of the Gun Auction sites I found one with a "Buy It Now" price of $800 ...is that the going rate in Canada as well ?

Couldn tell ya, Mike. My last three purchases have all been repro. muskets, but $800.00 doesn't sound unreal for a multi-marked cdn Ross to me. Good luck with whatever you decide to do to/with it!

Peter

[JaimeH]

A lot of money for a wall hanger!