Yugoslavia Order of Brotherhood and Unity

[Bryan]

Order of Brotherhood and Unity

1st Class - was awarded 3 870 times

5 torches

6 torches

2nd Class - was awarded 55 675 times

5 torches

6 torches

Please show yours!

Order of Brotherhood, 1st Class (5 torches) ? screwback

Order of Brotherhood and Unity, 2nd cl (5 torches), screwback

Order of Brotherhood and Unity, 2nd cl (6 torches), pinback

Edited October 15, 2007 by Soviet

[walter483]

Order of Brotherhood and unity with golden wreath or if you like 1st clas. first type with 5 torches and screwback. luckily in my collection. sorry for low quality of image

[hunyadi]

My first Yugo - well, I used to fix them but thats a different field... I must say the quality is amazing - considering that a Hungarian counterpart of this level was only seen in the early days of the Hungarian Peoples Repbulic.

[hunyadi]

and the reverse

[Bryan]

Very nice! It's good that you got the earlier 5 torches version.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Charles,

very nice item with great silver patina .

Best regards

Christian

[hunyadi]

thanks for the comments - strangely enough I found it in a box of mixed Hungarian items. By the serial number is there any way to give an aproximate date of manufacture. Yugoslavian is a place I just dont know very well.

[Bryan]

Hello Charles, I can't help you with the serial number, but I can tell you that because your order shows 5 torches on the Yugoslavian Coat of Arms it means this is a pre-1963 order.

"In 1963 the name of the state was changed to Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia, just as all the people's republics forming it were renamed Socialist republics. Mainly due to the question of the Bosnian Muslims not being represented in the five torches representing the five Yugoslav nations, the number of the torches was increased to six, with a new meaning, which was the number of the constituent republics."

Source : http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/yu_fy.html

[Christian Zulus]

Results of the auction in Vienna

Gentlemen,

Rauch's auction in Vienna http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19027 resulted in the following hammer prices (incl. all fees & taxes in EURO):

- 2cl (6 torches, vertical pin) - ? 48,-

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

Project: 3rd Class of that Order

Gentlemen,

has anyone informations and/or scans of the 3rd class (project!) of that order ?

Many thanks in advance .

Best regards

Christian

BTW: I think, that "Brotherhood & Unity" is one of the most beautiful YU-Awards - struck out of one solid piece of silver and with that nice medallion of tomback, showing the YU coat of arms and 26 stars .

[Ed_Haynes]

A very cranky document that does NOT want to be scanned.

From 1976, but beyond that !!!

[hunyadi]

Interesting document Ed - esp as its devoid of any 'serial number'. I wonder if like the neighbors to the north, if they issued a formal document and a carrying document? Perhaps the carrying document held the serial number. But - if the documents are devoid of serial numbers - whats the reason for placing serial numbers on the orders themsleves? Inventory?

[Christian Zulus]

Interesting document Ed - esp as its devoid of any 'serial number'. I wonder if like the neighbors to the north, if they issued a formal document and a carrying document? Perhaps the carrying document held the serial number. But - if the documents are devoid of serial numbers - whats the reason for placing serial numbers on the orders themsleves? Inventory?

Dear Charles,

interesting question .

The fact is, that documents never show s/n. (some orders had s/n. and some others had no s/n.!) and I never saw a "carrying document" (like in the CCCP) for YU-Awards - are there any ?

As far as I remember, there is a "carrying document" for the Hero-Order.

Best regards

Christian

[SasaYU]

Project: 3rd Class of that Order

Gentlemen,

has anyone informations and/or scans of the 3rd class (project!) of that order ?

Many thanks in advance .

Best regards

Christian

BTW: I think, that "Brotherhood & Unity" is one of the most beautiful YU-Awards - struck out of one solid piece of silver and with that nice medallion of tomback, showing the YU coat of arms and 26 stars .

Christian, as far as I know there is no 3rd class of Order of Brotherhood & Unity

[hunyadi]

Dear Charles,

interesting question .

The fact is, that documents never show s/n. (some orders had s/n. and some others had no s/n.!) and I never saw a "carrying document" (like in the CCCP) for YU-Awards - are there any ?

As far as I remember, there is a "carrying document" for the Hero-Order.

Best regards

Christian

I am going to make the assumption (as I dont know) that there were workbooks and soldierbooks. So then I must ask if thre is such books are there places to notate awards? And if there are - a place for the serial number? Sorry - I am transfixed on the serial number aspect.

[SasaYU]

As far as I know, there was no carrying document for Orders of Yugoslavia except for Order of national hero and Commemorative order 1941 (Partizanska spomenica 1941)

Edited August 16, 2007 by SasaYU

[hunyadi]

If there is no carying document - then how was it noted (other than a formal document) that a worker or soldier was entitled to wear certain awards? Was this noted in the workers book or the soldiers book? Thanks

[SasaYU]

Every order had it's own document (povelja) as one that Ed scanned.

System in Yugoslavia was different than in Hungary or other countries of Eastern block.

As far as I know only two orders had carying document:

Order of national hero and Commemorative order 1941 (Partizanska spomenica 1941)

[hunyadi]

So there was no notation or method of confirming that a soldeir or worker had earned an order or medal? Sorry if I seem to be hung up on this, I just expect that a soldier (for example) would have to have some sort of documentation on his person (soldier book) that would confirm to anyone who had the authority (police or higher officers) to inspect the documents of the soldier and to confirm in some manner that whatever awards the soldier was wearing (lets assume that he is returing to the barracks after a national parade) are actualy awarded to that person. Hungarians had a little slot in their soldier books in which they were supposed to stuff these little cards in to authorise them to wear ribbons or the awards. I am just thinking that the JNA would have has some sort of method and perhaps it may be there that we find serial numbers? If not - then I am stumped as to why they would issue these with numbers at all? (even though they did not number all awards or orders) Thanks for your patience in trying to answer my questions

[Ed_Haynes]

So the serial numbers . . . when they . . . rarely . . . appear on the medals . . . mean NOTHING?

I lose phaleristic respect for Tito!

[Christian Zulus]

So the serial numbers . . . when they . . . rarely . . . appear on the medals . . . mean NOTHING?

I lose phaleristic respect for Tito!

Dear Ed,

well, that aspect of YU-phaleristics should be researched - I also have no idea about that mess ...

Yugoslavia had also no order booklets for everyday use, too proove, that you are legitimated to wear your orders - that's very much the style of the Western world .

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

Christian, as far as I know there is no 3rd class of Order of Brotherhood & Unity

Dear Sasa,

I "borrowed" these scans from Bryan "Soviet" (he had them from e-bay), which show the 3rd class of the Order of Brotherhood & Unity:

What to our experts say to that item ?

That order had been offered at e-bay some time ago for USD 200,- to USD 300,-

Best regards

Christian

[orden_master]

Oooh, its me again

as far as my memory serves me I think that I can remember that it was a discussion to enlarge the order of Brotherhood an Unity to 3 classes, even some of the boxes have been prepared but the proposal was never adopted and never took place.

As the turbulencec went high in the 1991 and later period, many things happend and more things disapeard from IKOM in Zagreb. There was so much "garbagge" in the cellers of IKOM that even the responsables never will know what was in there. Some of the more interestin stuff shoewd up, probably like this box and order. I had some great probe items of many medals if the period in all differnt kind of metal, things which never get to production.

But a 100% anser I cound not give.

regards

Milan

Dear Sasa,

I "borrowed" these scans from Bryan "Soviet" (he had them from e-bay), which show the 3rd class of the Order of Brotherhood & Unity:

What to our experts say to that item ?

That order had been offered at e-bay some time ago for USD 200,- to USD 300,-

Best regards

Christian

[hunyadi]

Yugoslavia had also no order booklets for everyday use, too proove, that you are legitimated to wear your orders - that's very much the style of the Western world .

Thats what I was afraid of! Stolen Valor Act anyone?

[SasaYU]

Third class definitely does not exist.

Christian, order on the picture can be a fake or a one with an enamel worn out.

There is also that what Milan says about IKOM.