EK 1939 "23" Iron Cross, 1st Class, 1939

[Bill Garvy]

I am respectfully soliciting the best thinking of our august membership regarding this cross.

Several hypotheses present themselves. On the one hand, it may be, indeed, a "23" maker maker cross for the manufacturing firm of Arbeitsgemeinschaft fur Heereshedarf darf In der Graveur-u. Ziseleurinnung, on the other, a Souval manufactured piece, possibly period, possibly post-war, onto which the "23" has been stamped on the underside of the pin. The core and frame certainly do not match the 23's I have observed in 2nd Class.

What do you think?

obverse:

reverse:

maker mark:

[Guest Darrell]

Unusual to say the least. Looks to have a Souval Obverse and and Floch reverse characteristics

Edited May 19, 2007 by Darrell

[Bill Garvy]

Interesting hypothesis; Floch & Souval are both from Vienna. . .

[Alex K]

obverse rims are positively souval, distinctive beading at the corners, does not look like a floch reverse, certainly not a post war floch. My personal opinion, is a genuine period souval cross, the 23 may well be the official Prasidialkanzlei Numbers, not LDO numbers which Souval was L/58 and signified authorised private purchase manufacture.

just my opinion

attached period Souval

[joe campbell]

alex and bill's reverses are different.

the thing that stands out to me on bill's EK

are the merry-go-round numerals....

the one and the nine off kilter at their bases.

i've seen this before, and not associated with

herr floch, but can't remember where....

i like both crosses, but the 23 is a first for me.

joe

[Alex K]

Hi Joe, taking a closer look at the numbers, you're right, I didn't look closely enough, they are of kilter.so maybe not a souval piece but possibly a co-operation between souval and another maker?

regards

Alex

[Bill Garvy]

Clasp. . .

[Alex K]

Hi it may seem co-incidental, but that looks very similar to the clasp on my 1914-18 ek1 made by S & L during 1939-45,

regards

[Richard Gordon]

I can think of several makers that used this style of catch...

S&L(4), Orth(15), Fritz Zimmermann(6) spring to mind as well as the fake Floch.

So it seems just to be a 'style' and not identifiable to one particular maker.

Rich