Issues with medal bar

[Richarddwh]

I've had this bar for a couple of years it was the Verdienst Den Staat medal on the left that caught my eye, but I overlooked the ribbon of the Franco-Prussian medal, this appears to be the WW1 Widows HK but that doesn't make sense. Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Stogieman]

A Picture of the back would help... However. Is the 1870 in steel? Tough to tell from your image. In reality, both medals have the potential to be correct. The WW1 "widow's" cross is actually a "survivor's" cross that would have been awarded to both, either parent(s) or surviving children.

[Paul R]

It almost seems more likely for it to be a Widow's Cross. It is my impression that most 1871 Beamte Personnel were older men at the time of the 1870 war and it would be unlikely that they would still be in service to be eligible for the Centenial medal. For me, this bar would make more sense to be for a post 1871 vet who lost his son in WW1...

What are your thoughts, Rick?

Please do place a photo of the back of the bar.

regards

Paul

[Ulsterman]

um-that is a noncombtnt's ribbon. bronze on a noncombtnts ribbon?

bronze on combat ribbon= fighting in France

steel on combat ribbon=in uniform in Germany

steel on noncombat ribbon=stretcher bearer in combat.....but bronze on nocombat bar?

Edited June 19, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup. Needs a steel medal for a frontline medic. Makes absolutely no sense, but as Ulsterman says, that is how they showed frontline non-arms-bearers. You'd think, logically, that THIS would have been the ribbon for stay at homes, but nope. Mostly white ribbon = frontline officials and medical personnel who were noncombatants even in the midst of battle.

Fairly easy to find a correct steel medal.

The bronzes like the one currently on there have "From captured guns" impressed on the rim of original issues, and no impressed inscription on replacement private purchase medals. The solder on the suspension rings apparently came apart fairly often on these, even in the wearers' lifetimes.

An OLD bar of this type is usually a nasty, messy, exposed horror of sloppy stitching over the nasty tin can (or less often, brass) backings, with ugly soldered on hook. Nice neat ones with cloth backing and all that "sausage" hidden away are usually after 1910-ish.

[Ulsterman]

The bronze medal may well be original to the bar.

There was an article a while back somewhere about a Prussian Doctor (MD) who was a combat surgeon in the Union army in the US Civil War and then went back home during the Franco_Prussian war. He was given BOTH bronze and steel medals by the grateful Reich-and there were documents to prove it. it was odd-but odd things happen(ed). I'd leave it alone.

[Richarddwh]

Thanks everyone for the responses I've learnt something new. Rick, the medal is indeed the bronze version. Given the different comments, all carrying credence I am still confused. I've posted some pics of the reverse that might clarify.

[Ulsterman]

uh- I don't like that backing. have you blacklighted it?

[Richarddwh]

Not backlighted yet, but will. The reverse does a look a bit on the fresh side.

[Guest Rick Research]

Probably OK and more circa 1910 than 1897.