Imperial Russia 2 More Aviation Badges

[Chuck In Oregon]

I just got back late Tuesday evening from a couple of months in the Caucasus. I'm still unpacking, but I wanted to start sharing a few things that I brought back.

This small group came together and is said to be from one individual. Unfortunately, there are no accompanying documents, just the one photo with no aviation badges shown. I think that the badge he is wearing is a graduation badge from a school for infantry ensigns. I've got one of those around here somewhere.

I believe this first badge to be a pilot-observer's badge. One of my friends has suggested an aviation unit -- maybe a scout-observer unit -- staff officer's badge. Perhaps he's right, I just don't know.

I have previously shared another pilot-observer's badge here on the forum. This one has a gold-washed silver wreath and highlights. I believe that the insignia tself, which I thought at first to be silver, is actually some sort of blued steel or other non-precious metal with silver-washed wings. There are no markings on the insignia. The badge weighs 17.98 grams without the screwback and it's 4.9 cm from wingtip-to-wingtip by 4.3 cm from eyepiece to bottom of wreath.

An 84 is clearly marked on the ring on the back, as is the maker's mark, Eduard. These pieces came from Tbilisi and Eduard had a shop in Tbilisi. I suspect the gilted silver wreath/ring is a standard shop item to which was affixed the desired insignia.

As you look at the obverse, the left sword tip is slightly bent back. I don't see any other damage. There is minimal wear, with some to the highest rounded parts of the crown and a little to the high points of the wings. The post is uncut and the screwback appears to be original and it may be silver but it is unmarked.

Enjoy.

Chuck

Edited July 13, 2007 by Chuck In Oregon

[Chuck In Oregon]

I believe this to be a badge of the 1st Caucasus Aviation Squadron (OKA).

It's a lightweight little thing, only 6.44 grams without the screwback. I think it may have been silver-washed but I don't know the underlying metal. It's 4.3 cm from wingtip-to-wingtip and it's 3.6 cm high.

Has anyone seen this one in a catalog? I haven't.

Chuck

[Chuck In Oregon]

And finally, here's the picture -- a photo postcard, blank area cropped -- that came with the group.

[GeorgeCL]

WOW! Chuck,

Thoses are some real nice badges..

The first one looks hallmarked Eduard?

Pilot observer.

The second I think I have seen without the top ribbon.

I'll check when I get home.

These things just never come up on the openmarket.

And if they do the prices are astromical!

I my opinion Imp. Russian aviation are the rarist.

Good to have you back, We needed a little help on this part of the forum.

George

[GeorgeCL]

And finally, here's the picture -- a photo postcard, blank area cropped -- that came with the group.

Can you get a closeup scan of the badge?

George

[pluribus]

Sorry, but I don`t think these are originals. The pilot-observer badge is a highly faked item and particular badge looks like the fake items I see constantly on the collector meetings. The caucasian flight group badge is unknown to me but it has similar look to the observer badge so I think both of them are fakes.

Original aviation badges will cost thousands of dollars and it`s allmost impossible to find them.

I am not an expert of Imperial Russian aviation badges but...

pluribus

Edited July 13, 2007 by pluribus

[GeorgeCL]

I dont see any problems with the first badge..

Can you point out your concerns?

Granted collectors here in the US dont run accross these all the time. So comparing badges is not exactly plausable.

I dont know anything about the second badge posted.

Chuck scans his pics so the quality isnt the best.

But in general they look OK to me.

Ebay is full of copies and i have not seen any that compare to this badge.

George

[pluribus]

George,

As I said I am not an expert of Imp. Rus. aviation badges but I see fakes of Imp.and Sov. Russian high end badges very often because all of my life is dedicated to badges and medals/orders and I live in this region.

Jewelers from Latvia and Ukraine make perfect copies using silver and gold and best enamels.

I do not speak about poor copies from eBay.

Let`s say , this is my gut feeling which says the badges are not good. I may be wrong but I think I am not.

pluribus

[Chuck In Oregon]

The second I think I have seen without the top ribbon.

I'll check when I get home.

* * * * *

Now that you mention it, I think I've seen the second badge somewhere too, but also without the ribbon. I just can't put my finger on it right now. That makes some sense, as it would have been a lot easier and quicker than coming up with a new design.

Chuck

[GeorgeCL]

The only other thing I can add is it looks like th II is missing from the observer badges under Nickolas Cypher.

With a gilt wreath and looks to me a gold shield and crown also having golden hilts on swords. My reference states.

Badge for the flyer-observer, awarded to the officers of the general staff who finished the course of studies in aeronautic training troops to carry out air photography and correction fire.

George

[GeorgeCL]

* * * * *

Now that you mention it, I think I've seen the second badge somewhere too, but also without the ribbon. I just can't put my finger on it right now. That makes some sense, as it would have been a lot easier and quicker than coming up with a new design.

Chuck

Still cant find this badge in reference.

I'll keep looking nice piece anyway.

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

The only other thing I can add is it looks like th II is missing from the observer badges under Nickolas Cypher.

With a gilt wreath and looks to me a gold shield and crown also having golden hilts on swords. My reference states.

Badge for the flyer-observer, awarded to the officers of the general staff who finished the course of studies in aeronautic training troops to carry out air photography and correction fire.

George

* * * * *

Yes, I wondered how the "II" popped off. Guess we'll never know.

And I'll be darned. It looks like my friend was right about the staff officer's badge. He's pretty knowledgeable, but I thought it was just a wild guess. I'll be sure to tell him he was right.

Thanks, George.

Chuck

[Chuck In Oregon]

Can you get a closeup scan of the badge?

George

* * * * *

George, this is the best I could do. As you know, I am not very clever when it comes to anything digital ... or much else, really. Is that a button next to the upper right edge of the rhomb?

Chuck

[pluribus]

Here you can see some of the Imp. Russian aviation badges.

http://aviafalerist.narod.ru/index/may/bags4.html

Original badges were made of silver with great detail which you can`t find on your badges.

Best regards,

pluribus

Edited July 14, 2007 by pluribus