Soviet Stupid Red Banner question

[Ed_Haynes]

Hypothetical:

1- Recipient awarded the RSFSR Red Banner.

2- Recipient then awarded the USSR Red Banner.

Question: Would (should, could) the second Red Banner have been a "2"?

Sorry, a stupid question, I know.

[Christian Zulus]

Hypothetical:

1- Recipient awarded the RSFSR Red Banner.

2- Recipient then awarded the USSR Red Banner.

Question: Would (should, could) the second Red Banner have been a "2"?

Sorry, a stupid question, I know.

Dear Ed,

yes, in any case with an RSFSR RB.

With an RB from other Soviet Republics EXCEPT the Russian one, the bearer could apply for getting an additional CCCP RB. In such an case he would have got another RB as the 2nd RB a #2.

I will show a scan of Timoshenko in the next post.

Best regards

Christian

Edited July 14, 2007 by Christian Zulus

[Christian Zulus]

Timoshenko

Dear Ed,

Timoshenko had been the wrong example , because he got his 3 RBs on the photograph of 1937 for heroic deeds in the Civil War, so they are all RSFSR RBs:

We have to find another comrade .

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

Timoshenko - again

Dear Ed,

Marshal Timoshenko got an 4th RB during the GPW .

Here is a photograph of 1945 showing all his RBs with consecutive numbers:

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Does anyone have late photographs of Voroshilov & Budyonny with close-ups of their RBs ?

Edited July 14, 2007 by Christian Zulus

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks!

Well . . . I lied . . . a little. Not an entirely "hypothetical" question.

See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2326

As he didn't live to receive his second Red Banner, the question is more "moot" than "hypothetical", but . . . .

Edited July 14, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Christian Zulus]

"Victory Parade"

With an RB from other Soviet Republics EXCEPT the Russian one, the bearer could apply for getting an additional CCCP RB.

Dear Ed,

that statement from me is not so 100 % correct, because for the "Victory Parade" the old heros of the Civil War, like Stalin, Budyonny, Voroshilov, Timoshenko, etc., got r.i. CCCP RBs on the five-sided suspension, as we can see on photographs

Best regards

Christian

BTW: I assume, that CCCP RB didn't start with s/n. 1, but with the s/n. following the last issued RSFSR RB ?

[Guest Rick Research]

Not a stupid question at all, Ed. Aside from Very High Ranking Comrades, it SEEMS as if-- at least during the GPW when things were VERY messy regarding handing out awards--whether a numbered ORB was bestowed or not depended on whether the issuing authority HAD any to hand over.

I've got two "first" ORBs issued to the same officer 3 days apart (one "real" and one the gigantic first batch for long service). And we often--possibly more often than not--see groups with multiple "first" ORBs.

Even subsequent high rank did not necessarily result in retroactive "correction" with numbered ORBs-- here is Major General Gyorgy Petrovich Artemeev with THREE Red Banners:

two "firsts" and a "3." And this was taken 17 February 1960 as he was getting heaved out in Khruschev's "budget purge."

A quick flip through my photos reveals a WW2 Major General with a numbered ORB sandwiched between 2 "firsts," a 1959 Lieutenant General with 2 firsts and then a numbered ORB,, and three 1950s Colonels with: 3 firsts, 2 firsts, and a numbered followed by two firsts.

The unfortunate Guards Lieuetnant Colonel S, F. Kapustin, shown below in 1948, has an RSFSR and a screwback SSSR type "2"-- as well as the notation "arrested 1938" forever making him a Marked Man: