Strange Insignia for Volunteer Firefighters

[Paul R]

I was thumbing through the 1943 Uniformenmarkt and found this interesting article. I guess that the police forces were planning on using SS style collar insignia. How long did this last? I have never seen such tabs before. Notice that they are listed as carmine in color. Maybe they are confused for SA?

If anyone has such pieces, please lets see them!

As a side note, it seems as if the TENO is also using the black SS style insignia as well!

[Guest Rick Research]

That's weird!

The volunteer firemen often got stuck with outdated Weimar era gear, which I've seen being worn right into the war.

I wonder whether these were proposed but never actually WORN?

It says to see the previous issue for other VFD insignia.

[Paul R]

I left the DVD at work. I will check out the previous issue on Monday. I will post any relevant scans. It does describe the previous tab as "having the double litzen, but not light green like the Schutzpolizei, but carmine". I wonder why they bothered to put that little blurb in there?

[Ernst]

The article reads that from this date onwards the ranks from Anw?rter and up should wear the double Litzen same pattern as Schupo but than with Karmesin backingcloth.

The officers tabs in SS-style were proposed for the entire police system but this order was shortly after retracted. These tabs are not believed to actually having been used.

[Paul R]

The article reads that from this date onwards the ranks from Anw?rter and up should wear the double Litzen same pattern as Schupo but than with Karmesin backingcloth.

The officers tabs in SS-style were proposed for the entire police system but this order was shortly after retracted. These tabs are not believed to actually having been used.

Thanks for the translation Ernst. I was having a tough time getting though it. Were any of these tabs actually produced? I wonder why this uniform regulation had such an extremely short life? How long was it... a couple of weeks?

[W.Unland]

Hello,

Of course Ernst is correct. SS style tabs were mandated for all branches of the police, but the only one's that ever actually used them were police generals and the tenopolizei since they brought their SS style tabs with them when they were absorbed into the police.

Over the years I have seen various green police SS-style tabs for sale, but I have always considered these to be reproductions as they never had a chance to be used. I suppose it IS possible that some staff officer's might have actually used them, but certainly not volunteer firemen.

Regards,

William unland

[gary9]

Here are some original collar patches for your pleasure

[gary9]

One more picture

Edited December 3, 2007 by gary9

[Paul R]

Dear Lord Gary,

Those are amazing!! What are the difference between the police and the SA tabs?

[gary9]

Hi Paul There is no difference between teh police and SS collar patches except the police green colour and the gold embroidery

[Paul R]

I assume that they made these in carmine for the Fire Police as well. Have you seen these in any other colors?

[gary9]

Hi PaulR specimins may well have been made for approval, with a probe seel. I have never seen or heard of any being found. If any where found, try convincing someone that they are real.

[lbsr]

Several years ago, someone from Germany posted me photo of this General collar patch - I remember this was very dark "wine" red. Color looks more as Gemeinde than Feuerwehr. IN that times I had no access to UM and I thought it is "Muster" of Gemeindepolizei patch, never instituted.

I try found this pic somewhere on my HDs, but (after several HD crashes) I'm not very optimistic with it.

To Ernst answer.: Yes, he is right with FSP, but as to FFW etc. I never found any article in RMBliV about instituting of it first after war (but I haven't RMBlIV from 1944 & 1945)

To PaulR:

Have You on your DVD first several UMs from 1943? I mean UM, not DUZ No 1-2 dated May 31st, 1943! After my knowledge there was at least one number of UM issued in 1943 before UM & SuS were merged to DUZ...

Edited February 2, 2008 by lbsr

[Paul R]

Several years ago, someone from Germany posted me photo of this General collar patch - I remember this was very dark "wine" red. Color looks more as Gemeinde than Feuerwehr. IN that times I had no access to UM and I thought it is "Muster" of Gemeindepolizei patch, never instituted.

I try found this pic somewhere on my HDs, but (after several HD crashes) I'm not very optimistic with it.

To Ernst answer.: Yes, he is right with FSP, but as to FFW etc. I never found any article in RMBliV about instituting of it first after war (but I haven't RMBlIV from 1944 & 1945)

To PaulR:

Have You on your DVD first several UMs from 1943? I mean UM, not DUZ No 1-2 dated May 31st, 1943! After my knowledge there was at least one number of UM issued in 1943 before UM & SuS were merged to DUZ...

I think that you and I both have the same DVD. I am looking for the first six months of of 1943 as well. I am most specifically looking for March through May.

[lbsr]

Here is photo mentioned above:

Edited February 19, 2008 by lbsr

[Paul R]

Here is photo mentioned above:

Hello,

Those look very dark.

[lbsr]

Yes, but that photo was probably taken without flash - text accompanied described those collar patches as velvet, wine red. Interesting is, that there is place for pips, which weren't added -it seems that those shoulderboards were not finished. I remember I recognized them as Rural Police General's "Muster" piece.

Edited February 19, 2008 by lbsr