EK 1939 another "unknown" maker?

[Bill Garvy]

Along the line of thinking initiated on another thread was the idea of maker stamps on envelopes of issue with "unknown" maker's numbers. Here is another example, this time of an unmarked Iron Cross in 2nd Class with its envelope of issue with a heretofore unknown manufacturer of the Iron Cross. I wonder which of the "unknown" numbers corresponds to this maker?

[Bill Garvy]

The reverse of the cross and envelope of issue. . .

[Bill Garvy]

And finally, a close-up of the maker's stamp. . .

[Marcus H]

Hi Bill,

I'm of the thought it's the '27' the Anton Schenkl's of Nachfolger Wien. I'll tell why I think so: not only is there a thought on this in Gordons book, The Iron Cross of 1939 on page 74, but further to that over on the WAF there was some deliberation over the identical small tan packets devoid of a flap found always with 27's in them which I started with another guy on there, these EK's found in these packets are all 27's. Since then I've been looking into these a bit.

Every once in a blue moon, you find the packets (Specific packet I show below) still intact....... but, the reason for the packets perhaps devoid of the flap is on some of these tan packets is that (exactly like the one below, devoid of flap) some have the Anton Schenkl's maker mark and then others with Maria Schenkl's, could it all be possible (Seems odd though) that the Anton packets were purposely ''modified'' by the removal of the Anton marked flap when Maria succeeded/took over the business, as we also find the exact same packet with the Maria stamp !!??? Not only that, every packet studied so far (Tan one below in pic), the flap has been removed by 'cutting'; every packet seems to have had the flap cut off carefully (and there is still just enough remains visible to vouch that they did indeed have a flap, CUT not torn or ripped) Note I should say NOT every one of these specific packets has had the flap cut off, thats how we cottoned onto the Anton & Maria thoughts, most of them and the sparse odd one not.

Could this contribute to the relationship of Anton and Maria and the PL number '27' ? And hence that the packet like yours Bill and the EK........could all Maira's be 27's perhaps with the correlation of the above ?

I think there is something in it perhaps, it's a shot in the dark but a theory at least.

This is the packet (left) found with the flap cut off, with Anton and Maria markings and always a 27 in them. The one on the right is a Maria marked packet thats intact.......and not really any use in the debate as this one came with no medal.

Kr

Marcus

Edited August 30, 2005 by Marcus H

[David Robertson]

Hi Bill

Marcus is correct the cross should be a 27 marked one,I have one in the small tan packet. I posted this cross and packet on wehrmacht-awards.com And was told the same thing and also in Gordons book has Reference to them. My packet is intact (with the flap).It seems I only have limited amount of space to post photos?I have more of the packet and cross.

David Robertson

Edited August 30, 2005 by David Robertson

[David Robertson]

more photos

Edited August 30, 2005 by David Robertson

[Marcus H]

David thats a lovely packet !!!!

Kr

Marcus

[Dave B]

Nice cross as well!

Dave

[Bill Garvy]

Well, thanks to you gentlemen, Marcus & David, for your thoughtful and studied input. This certainly lays the "Maria Schenkl, Wein" issue to rest. In comparing the unmarked cross that came with my packet with a maker marked "27", they are indeed identical with respect to their manufacturing characteristics.

[byf]

Really nice. I need to get more of them. It's not addicting.

byf

[Jim Baker]

David,

Nice EK and packet. I've owned a few of these and they are really nice when you can get them with the flap.

Bill,

You can definitely throw a 27 in that packet. Very nice, and I believe somewhat rare packet you have there.