Nice Group

[GraemeR]

Hi, this group belongs to a very good friend of mine who spent 23 years with the RMP. He recently got them re-mounted to add in his OSM for Afghanistan.

Graeme

[Guest Rick Research]

Could you tell us what each one is? My references on British awards date from the 1970s. I recognize GSM 1st, the most recent Jubilee 3rd from right, and a LSGCM at the end, but what are the others? Can't read the bars from the scan.

[Bob Hunter]

As Rick notes, a close up of the bars would be appreciated. Handsome group!

[GraemeR]

Sorry about that, left to right

GSM with NI Bar

1st Gulf War with Jan-Feb 1991 Bar

Nato medal with Bar Former Yugoslavia and 2 for 2 tours

OSM with Afghanistan Bar

Golden Jubilee Medal

Accumulated Campaign Service Medal

LS&GC Medal with Regular Army Bar

I'll try to get close ups of the bars in the next couple of days.

Graeme

Edited August 30, 2005 by GraemeR

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah!

First Gulf War, but nothing from our... grateful local allies?

What is an "Accumulated Campaign" Service Medal-- and why are there no bars on it?

[GraemeR]

Hi Rick, yes he has 2 medals from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait but the UK Govt don't recognise them as Official Awards and so can't be worn on the medal bar.

As far as I can tell the ACS medal was instituted in January 1994. All holders of the GSM were awarded the Accumulated Campaign Service Medal on completion of 36 months Campaign Service since 14 August 1969.

Over and above the initial qualifying period, further periods of 36 months accumulated campaign service is denoted by a clasp. To indicate the award of 3 clasps a gilt rosette is worn on the ribbon.

Service on UN and NATO missions do not count towards the qualifying service. Nor does time off during periods on Campiagn i.e. weekends off don't count towards the qualifying period.

Mostly awarded to members of the Irish Regiments it's a fairly scarce award to other branches of the Service.

Oops meant to say that this medal is solid silver and is hallmarked. This first British medal like this. Value would be at least ?300.

Graeme

Edited August 30, 2005 by GraemeR

[Nick]

Rick

The dreaded Accumulated Campaign medal is a bit of a strange beast, and considered unnecessary by many. It is awarded for a total of 36 months accumulated campaign service on top of the 1962 GSM. In other words service for which originally is awarded the GSM, which accumulates to more 36 months or more get this medal. Another 36 months earns a bar. It was brought in to recognise multiple tours of Northern Ireland for which the GSM was initially awarded, but no recognition could be made on top of that original award for subsequent tours.

[Guest Rick Research]

That's strange-- U.S. forces wear those "friendly" awards!

The Accumulated seems quite strange. Wouldn't BARS (I am thinking of the useless King's South Africa Medal with "1901" and "1902" bars) to the GSM be more ... informative as well as ... cheaper? BLANK bars to a "generic" medal...

who's in charge over there, anyway?????

[GraemeR]

Bars wouldn't work very well. Can you imagine someone with 3 or 4 NI Bars on his GSM. It would just look strange.

I know that a quite few people think it's a strange medal, as mentioned by the Chairman, but I did actually agree with the reasoning behind it at the time. It was meant to reward subsequent tours in NI at a time when the troubles were still going strong and there was still no end in sight.

Presumably subsequent tours in Iraq, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone etc will now count towards Campaign Service.

Graeme

[Nick]

Graeme

I am not sure that the Accumulated Service medal can be issued other than for service awarded for the GSM. As they have gone down different paths with the OSM and now Gulf War medal I am not sure it will count. But I think perhaps it is time for a new GSM.

[GraemeR]

I see where you are coming from but do they still award the Gulf medal or the OSM if you are posted to Iraq or Afghanistan just now. If they don't then some form of recognition is required for tours in those 'war' zones and the ACS seems to be a logical step.

I agree that we do need a new GSM but it's not going to happen. The current one is still being issued with NI & Air Ops Iraq bars so until that finishes there is no chance.

That and the fact that the OSM is the official replacement for the GSM. Instead of bars it will be new ribbons for each action. They seem to be going down the UN route and having the same medal for everything. Bit of a cost cutting exercise.

Graeme

[Nick]

I agree that we do need a new GSM but it's not going to happen.

I wouldn't be so sure on it not happening, I think it is long overdue and the OSM was not designed to replace long term campaign service. The OSM was designed to stand in for the GSM in operations that did not warrant a specific campaign medal. However this I believe was with lack of foresight into what was on the horizon. Suddenly the British Armed Forces are committed to a pretty major on going campaigns. This to me cries out for a new GSM for campaign service supported by the OSM for minor operations. Is it right that the Iraq War medal should still be issued for ongoing operations in Iraq, it is no longer a minor operation so does not warrant the OSM, but by the same token the actual "war" is arguably over, I think this calls for a new GSM Iraq Bar. But only time will tell

Instead of bars it will be new ribbons for each action

They are also issuing bars as above.

[GraemeR]

I do agree that it should happen I just don't think it will. This Govt's penny pinching attitude means that it's far cheaper to use the OSM and issue a new ribbon than it is to design a new GSM and issue a new bar for each campaign or operation.

The official blurb states that it is intended for minor campaigns for which a separate medal is not awarded and ops for which a UN or NATO medal is not merited.

The GSM was awarded for campaigns and operations that fell short of a full-scale war.

There is not much difference between the blurbs and this makes me believe that the Govt will continue with the OSM rather than a new GSM. That and the fact they like the idea of loads of ribbons on a chest.

It could also be argued that we no longer have the capability of mounting an operation or campaign on our own that fell short of a full-scale war.

They have issued a bar for Afghanistan but I can't recall seeing one for Seirra Leone. Is it not also true that the Bar was only awarded for service during certain time periods and/or on certain operations. The medal was therefore also awarded without a Bar for service there at other times.

In regard to service in Iraq. Again you are right; a new Iraq Bar for the GSM should be issued but again this will not happen. It may be that they decide that from a certain date everyone in Iraq will be on a 'minor' campaign and qualify for an OSM with a new ribbon. Or they may decide that it counts towards accumulated campaign time for a bar to the ACS (which as you stated was supposed to reward further tours in NI).

Whatever they decide it will be the cheapest option.

Graeme

Edited August 31, 2005 by GraemeR

[Nick]

That and the fact they like the idea of loads of ribbons on a chest

Yes I have to agree with you on this one. There are many serving soldiers out there now with a chest full of ribbons, compare that to 15 years ago and you were lucky to see two or three up, with the single GSM being the norm. Go back further to the 60 and 70 and it was even worse, one if you were lucky or two if you were a long time server.

I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing really

[Ulsterman]

Bad thing I think.

At the Tory Party Conference last year this actually came up as a topic.

Should we ever return to power perhaps a new GSM will be issued with bars.

This is what I would like to see avoided. This bar is to a USAF NCO who served @ 1981-1989. In the British forces he'd have probably got nothing except a GCM and maybe, just maybe a MBE.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Ulsterman

[Marcus H]

It also begs the question how on earth does he wear a bar like that without having them mounted such as each medal over lapping a bit. I had problems extending the arm with just five !

This looked bad enough I could have a '3' on the Former Yugo NATO medal, but never bothered in all honesty, the times I wore these you could count on one hand.

Kr

Marcus

Edited September 14, 2005 by Marcus H

[GraemeR]

He only recently had the bar extended with the OSM. He has never actually worn them. He has them 'just in case'. He hasn't even added a miniature OSM to his mess bar. He is too tight to buy one. If his missus hadn't paid for the re-mounting of his full size bar he would never have got it done.

I have a mate that works through in Glasgow that has 8. He got his ribbon bar re-done by a Glasgow company and the idiots put all 8 ribbons in a single row. It sticks out so far it looks ridiculous but he is also too tight to get them re-done.

Marcus, that is a nice group you have as well.

Cheers

Graeme

[Tony Farrell]

I have raged against the machine countless times regarding the OSM - a badly thought-out medal if ever there was one. A new GSM would've done the trick, but no... 'others' knew better. Anyhow, the ACSM is indeed an oddity: bearing traits more associated with LS&GCs. The maximum amount of bars so far awarded seems to be around the five mark - denoting eighteen years' aggregated 'operational' service - though I understand that there is provision for thirty: three gilt rosettes = 27 years + the medal itself.

Here's a two barred example:

[Tony Farrell]

This medal is solid silver and is hallmarked. This first British medal like this.

Not entirely correct. South African issues of the Military LS&GC were also hallmarked, along with VDs, TDs & EDs.

[Guest Rick Research]

Did you get an Epson 2400 scanner? That was !!!

Additional question: why is a CAMPAIGN medal, albeit one for Long But Generically Unspecific Services, mounted AFTER a Jubilee and not in front with the other campaign medals???

[Tony Farrell]

Good question. Quite simply, they had to put it somewhere, and as it bears the traits of a LS&GC - albeit not for long service per se - then ahead of LS&GCs, but behind MSMs seemed logical. Personally, I think Coronation & Jubilee issues should come after LS&GCs, but I'm not making the decisions. If only...

[Ardent]

Did you get an Epson 2400 scanner? That was !!!

Additional question: why is a CAMPAIGN medal, albeit one for Long But Generically Unspecific Services, mounted AFTER a Jubilee and not in front with the other campaign medals???

The Golden Jubilee medal seems an odd one - various rules allow it to be placed differently from other jubillee/coronation medals and I've seen people wearing them in all sorts of positions on the bar

[Tony Farrell]

The regulations for the 2002 Jubilee Medal are no different than other previous issues, and are worn where they have been since the post-Great War overhaul which shifted them aft - for want of a better descriptive term.