Unusual Pionier Abteilung

[bob lembke]

Hi;

I am studying a Pionier. He was inducted into Pionier=Bataillon Nr. 3 "von Rausch" in Brandenburg in early 1915, sent off on some detached duty, where he seems to have become seriously ill, and then a document states, in partial translation: "Transferred to 4.(32.) Ersatz Kompagnie" in mid-November 1915. He then seems to have dropped from view for several months.

I read a lot about pioneer units, and have never even seen such a unit designation. The only places that he seemed to be in this period was Germany (Brandenburg) and the Balkans.

Perhaps this was a temporary unit for detached service.

Any ideas? Specifics, or a general idea as to what kind of designation that is?

Bob Lembke

[Naxos]

Hi;

I am studying a Pionier. He was inducted into Pionier=Bataillon Nr. 3 "von Rausch" in Brandenburg in early 1915, sent off on some detached duty, where he seems to have become seriously ill, and then a document states, in partial translation: "Transferred to 4.(32.) Ersatz Kompagnie" in mid-November 1915. He then seems to have dropped from view for several months.

I read a lot about pioneer units, and have never even seen such a unit designation. The only places that he seemed to be in this period was Germany (Brandenburg) and the Balkans.

Perhaps this was a temporary unit for detached service.

Any ideas? Specifics, or a general idea as to what kind of designation that is?

Bob Lembke

Bob, he was transferred to the 4.Ersatz-Kompanie/Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 32

Edited October 7, 2007 by Naxos

[bob lembke]

Bob, he was transferred to the 4.Ersatz-Kompanie/Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 32

Thanks, Hardy; I have never seen such a unit notation. I guess that might have been a war-time unit, with a number that high. I just got my copy of Cron in the mail yesterday; I will look in it and see what he says.

Anyone know of this unit, and what it was doing in late 1915. In the Balkans?

Bob Lembke

[bob lembke]

Dug thru Cron, and Pionier=Bataillon Nr. 32 is still a mystery. Not at all mentioned, except in a curious left-handed sort of way. Could this have been a temporary unit for service in the Balkans?

Bob Lembke

[Chris Boonzaier]

Dug thru Cron, and Pionier=Bataillon Nr. 32 is still a mystery. Not at all mentioned, except in a curious left-handed sort of way. Could this have been a temporary unit for service in the Balkans?

Bob Lembke

No,

companies of it were attached to the 195th, 197th and 31st I.D.s

Seems to have appeared in 1918 and its companies are listed as "Reserve Pionier" companies.

Best

Chris

[Naxos]

No,

companies of it were attached to the 195th, 197th and 31st I.D.s

Seems to have appeared in 1918 and its companies are listed as "Reserve Pionier" companies.

Best

Chris

The Reserve-Pionier-Bataillon Nr.32 was created in the spring of 1915

[bob lembke]

Thanks, everyone!

I also ran this question past an e-friend who is a Bundeswehr General Staff officer at a fairly high pay grade. He said that Harvy is quite correct; that he would be in the 4. Ersatz Kompagnie von 32. Pionier Bataillon, according to standard German military nomenclature.

The problem is that no one has come up with a direct reference to the battalion itself. Most are to the Reserve Pionier Bataillon Nr. 32, which did seem to exist. (It is curious that there seems to have been a RPB Nr. 32, but no PB Nr. 32.) Someone came up with a reference of some company attached to this unit, and in Cron I found a mention of this sort.

The Pionier I am studying was on detached, clandestine, and in a sense on illegal duty, and his detachment was one pulled together for a particular task, and was not going to be maintained after their job was done. My German e-friend suggested that this "unit" might have been a organizational "home" for this clandestine formation, sort of giving this formation a bureacratic "pigeon-hole" for paperwork, etc. Going over wide-ranging presentation of the range of WW I Pionier units one is struck by the gap in these lists at Bataillon Nr. 32. This all makes sense; it is hard to imagine the German Army of the period having a unit without a name.

This is an interesting business. I have been a bit cryptic; this is a matter that I am writing a book on, now in an active fashion, and unfortunately I have become aware that some of my posts are probably being "vacumned up" by a third party.

Anyone running across a reference to this unit please share it. I will carefully collect your hints. This is sort of like looking for the Ivory-billed Woodpecker.

Bob Lembke

[Chris Boonzaier]

Bob... by post refers to Pionier Battalion 32 NOT Reserve Pionier Battalion 32.

The companies of reserve battalion 32 were called RESERVE companies.

Only 1-3 are mentioned as they are attached to divisions, and those that were attached to higher units are not mentioned on my list.

[bob lembke]

Hi, guys;

I am sorry that I did not respond to your helpful input earlier; I was tangled up in a work/business mess, and wanted to think this thru and really read Cron carefully; unfortunately I only have it in translation.

Chris mentioned some information about Pionier Regiment Nr. 32, but added that it appeared in 1918. Any info on this mysterious unit is helpful, but the period I am interested in in particular is mid to late 1915, when this Pionier was sent to the Balkans.

Hardy added information showing the establishment of Reserve=Pionier=Bataillon Nr. 32 (and 33. and 34.) in early 1915.

I just poked thru my new copy of Cron, Imperial German Army 1914-1918; Organization, Structure, Orders-of-Battle, and, although I had thought I had seen a fleeting reference to Pion.=Regt. Nr. 32, several careful readings of the section on the Pioniere did not reveal this mention, which I had earlier mentioned. It does state how 10 Pionier Regiments were formed at mobilization, including Pion.=Regts. 29-31. P=R 31 seems to have been a bit different than the others, and was formed from one battalion each from Garde=Pionier=Bataillon and from Pionier=Bataillon (2. brandenburgerische) Nr. 28. (My Pionier was always a brandenburgerische Pionier, although he served in a variety of Pionier units, all were from Brandenburg.) So the suggestion from my friend the serving Bundeswehr officer (and serious student of WK I) that the Pionier=Regiment Nr. 32 was probably a "paper" unit that provided a bureaucratic "home" for the temporary and shadowy unit that this Pionier joined and went off to the Balkans with seems to be a good working hypothesis, although Pionier=Regiment Nr. 31 was clearly an actual unit. Apparently the next Pionier Regiment (numerically) that was formed was Fritz Haber's Pionier=Regiment Nr. 35 (Gas).

So, perhaps P=R Nr. 32 was a "paper" Brandenburg Pionier unit set up to cubby-hole special operations and/or formations, while P=R Nr. 31 was a real Brandenburg unit set up earlier. The numerical proximity might suggest this.

Thanks for your input. Chris, I am interested in where P=R Nr. 32 was mentioned in reference to 1918. Cron mentions that Hinderburg and Ludendorff made major changes to the Pionier establishment in 1917 after they took over the OHL.

Any other help, guys? I have been helped here quite a bit. Any comments?

Bob Lembke

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I assume we are talking "Battalion" ?

I think a glance at most Pionier battalions will show them to be "a bureaucratic "home" " for the units of the battalion. Usually you have the companies of the battalion spread over a bunch of divisionsand the Batln. itself as a ghost admin office, so I dont see what is so ominous with the 32nd?

My reference to the battalion shows simply where the companies that served on Divisional level were on a certain date in 1918, not where they were before and not parts attached to higher formations.

many pionier formations are elusive, unless there is something a bit more concrete to prove otherwise, I would guess it was simply a unit in a Armeekorps supporting the Bulgarians or something along those lines as supposed to a secret unit.

Best

Chris

[bob lembke]

Hi,

I assume we are talking "Battalion" ?

I think a glance at most Pionier battalions will show them to be "a bureaucratic "home" " for the units of the battalion. Usually you have the companies of the battalion spread over a bunch of divisionsand the Batln. itself as a ghost admin office, so I dont see what is so ominous with the 32nd?

My reference to the battalion shows simply where the companies that served on Divisional level were on a certain date in 1918, not where they were before and not parts attached to higher formations.

many pionier formations are elusive, unless there is something a bit more concrete to prove otherwise, I would guess it was simply a unit in a Armeekorps supporting the Bulgarians or something along those lines as supposed to a secret unit.

Best

Chris

We are talking about both battalions and regiments. In 1914 and 1915 some pioneer regiments were formed from battalions, and later in the war they again were broken down to battalions. But I carefully checked my last post for accuracy in this.

The Militaer=Pass of this Pionier states: "Am 18. 11. 15. zur 4.(32.) Ers. Komp. versetzt." My friend on the German General Staff told me in an e-mail that this refers to the 4th Ersatz Company of the 32. Regiment, and Hardy also says that that is the meaning of the notation. (I have studied 30-40 Militaer=Paesse, and I can't recall seeing that notational form.) Certainly my friend in Germany is the "gold standard" for an opinion, and he studies WK I very seriously, and works in the archives.

Cron, who in its 20+ pages on the Pioniere, mentions most pioneer formations 5-10 times, does not seem to mention it once, although in a first quick read I thought that I had seen a mention.

I know a lot about the company, it was a very unusual unit, and a temporary formation that only existed a few months, and its deployment broke international law and had good reason to be kept "under cover".

Bob Lembke

[Chris Boonzaier]

I assume you are talking about M.K.?

I would run it by him again. I think he just overlooked the designation.

Naxos also has BN not Regt.

Best

Chris

[bob lembke]

I assume you are talking about M.K.?

I would run it by him again. I think he just overlooked the designation.

Naxos also has BN not Regt.

Best

Chris

You are right; Naxos said battalion, not regiment.

My serving e-friend is not M. K. However, I will check what he wrote (despite my error with what Naxos wrote, I am 95% confident that my serving e-friend said regiment. Additionally, I will write him and ask him if the notation would also cover a battalion, as well as a regiment.

Again, thanks for your help and tolerance. This discussion may seem like a cat chasing it's tail, but is quite useful to me.

Bob Lembke

[rast]

All the war time formations would be served by the Ersatz formations of the peace time establishment. The engineers usually started with 3 Ersatz companies, but slowly geared up to have 7 or even 8 Ersatz companies per Ersatz-Bataillon in 1918. The Pionierbataillon 32 came to life as a reserve formation and only lost the reserve designation in 1917, but nevertheless its companies still remained Reserve-Pi-Kompagnien. - The question now is: Was ResPiBtl 32 served by 4./ErsPiBtl 3? Then the designation 4.(32.) ErsKp would make some sense.