Hungary Police Uniforms in the HUPR

[Gordon Craig]

I hope that by starting this thread we can come up with a lot of information, or at least some, on police uniforms for the 1948-1989 time period. While there are a considerable number of Hungarian military uniform collectors, both in Hungary and abroad, there is not much interest in collecting uniforms outside this area. That has a number of effects. It keeps the price down but also limits what is available because not much comes on the market. It also means there are hardly any collectors to contact for assistance in research and information gathering. I have been in contact with a police collector, through a mutual friend, but the assistance provided has been minimal. The police museum is also of limited help since they seem to focus more on the criminals than on police uniforms. Although they have some very rare uniform items on display there is no information pertaining to them displayed with them. They also prohibit you from taking photos within the museum.

Anyway, to get on with the pictures, here is the earliest police uniform in my collection. It is very similar in design to the M51 military tunic, both inside and out, and was the type worn up to the 1956 revolution. Unfortunately, the tunic is missing both the collar tabs and the shoulderboards but by the last picture I post you will know what they should look like. Since I have only seen two of these tunics for sale in the last 18 months, this one being one of the two, it could take me a long time to find the missing collar tabs and shoulderboards!

Regards,

Gordon

Edited February 18, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

The buttons on the tunic front. They are 22mm in diametre. They are not marked on the back.

[Gordon Craig]

The method of attaching the shoulder boards. There are no buttons attached to the tunic shoulders. The tongue of the shoulder boards are passed through the two loops first. There is usually a loop on the back of the shoulder board, that fits between the two loops on the tunic, that the tongue is also passed through before passing it through the loop closest to the collar of the tunic. Then a button is applied by pushing the shank of the button through the top of the shoulder board and the tongue. Something is then pushed through the eye in the shank to hold the button in place thus holding the shoulder board to the tunic. This is often just a small piece of wood.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

The back of the tunic. You can see the moth holes along the bottom of the back. Luckily there is only one small one on the front that is not really noticeable. Since the tunic is made of pure wool, these holes are not unexpected. In a tunic this rare they are acceptable to me.

[Gordon Craig]

The markings inside along the lower edge of the back of the tunic. They are not legible so don't mean a great deal to me.

[Gordon Craig]

As found on other Hungarian tunics, there is a number that appears on almost all pieces so that the tunic is assembled correctly. It is usually a four digit number in a box as shown here.

[Gordon Craig]

The trousers for this tunic.

[Gordon Craig]

The markings on one of the pockets in these trousers.

[Gordon Craig]

The breeches for this tunic. As with most uniforms, it is very unusual to find pants with them. I was very lucky to get this tunic with both types of pants that were worn with it. The trousers are moth hole free. The breeches have several holes on the front in the crotch area. The bottom of the legs are split to allow the breeches to be put on and then fastened with small plastic buttons.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

A picture from the Osprey Elite series "The Hungarian Revolution 1956" showing a pictorial drawing of a policeman of the period wearing this type of uniform. His visor cap, which I do not have, and ID papers are on the ground at his feet.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

A closer view, from the same book, of his shoulder boards and collar tabs.

[Gordon Craig]

Next, the great coat worn at this same time period. In Hungarian collector parlance, this is refered to as a "4/4" coat.

[Gordon Craig]

The shoulder board loops and the collar tabs. The shoulder boards are attached to the 4/4 coat in the same fashion as they are to the tunic.

[Gordon Craig]

A closer view of the collar tabs. The crossed rifles were the insignia of the police as well as the infantry although there were differences.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

This view of the 4/4 coats shows the opening in the rear which was closed by small gold coloured buttons of the same design as used on the front of the coat. I could not find any markings in the 4/4 coat.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

Lastly, my attempt to recreate, using items from my collection, the picture in the Osprey book.

[Gordon Craig]

Following the suppression of the 1956 revolution there was period where the government very cautiously tried to regain control of the population and at the same time gradually remove the few privileges that had been instituted during the revolt. There was also considerable planning to distance the state apparatous from the Russians. One way that this was done was to change the design of the uniforms, which had a destinct Russian flavour, of all military and paramilitary organization. This included the police forces. Both nationally and locally. The old blue coloured uniform was replaced by a grey blue one of a more traditional style, for the region, than the previous one. It was still a five button closed collar tunic but with four external, patch pockets and totally different shaped shoulder boards very similar in shape to those used by the Hungarian armed forces in the second world war. The collar tabs were very similar to the previous ones but these to bore a similarity to collar tabs used in the past. I have no available reference for the police designation for this tunic so I am going to used the armed forces designation of 57M.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited December 5, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

A close up of the collar tabs and shoulder boards. This is one of three tunics I bought as a lot and to say they were in terrible condition would be putting it mildly. In the past, there has been no collecting interest in civilian tunics in Hungary so there was no interest in storing things properly for later sale. This is beginning to change as the population befomes more computer literate. In the future, police tunics of this era, and the previous one I posted, are bound to rise in price considerably because of the small number that have apparently survived. The shoulder boards on this tunic have suffered the ravages of time the most. Almost all of the gold wash on the metal edging has disappeared. The silver cloth rank stripe running across the boards could be almost any colour. I've been able to clean up the boards a little so they at least look blue now. You are lucky that the somewhat "pungent" odour of this tunic does not accompany the photos!

[Gordon Craig]

A close up of the collar tabs.

[Gordon Craig]

A close up of the shoulder boards.

[hunyadi]

Very nice M57! (though I think I can smell it from here) - as you can see the pre 1965 boards have a tendancy of the bullion chord around the edge of the shoulder baord to fade to a nice 'historical' patina. Ar there any markings on the interior? One place that a M57 of mine has is a mark under the lapel (!!!)

[Guest Rick Research]

What rank is 2 stars and a stripe? Is there a thread in here somewhere with standard How To Recognize Ranks charts?

I'm confused when it isn't a slavish clone of the Soviet system of insignia!

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

No markings of any kind that I can find. When it comes back in from hanging on my balcony for the next week I'll look again. Wouldn't be the first time I have found markings on a second look!

Rick,

I only have one rank chart for police and it lists two stars and a single stripe as a t?zsőrmester (sergeant major). The problem with this rank chart, compared to my uniform, is that for Enlisted Men and NCOs the metal trim on the boards, the stars and the rank strips are all in silver. Officer ranks are all in gold except for the metalic cloth strip. Enlisted Men and NCOs use a single metalic cloth stripe while Warrant Officers use a broader metalic cloth stripe and a combination of a single cloth stripe and stars to different their ranks (3). Officers use a gold metalic centre piece, much like WWII Hungarian Army shoulder boards, and large stars to differentiate their ranks. Confused yet? Sorry I can not post a scan of the rank chart. It is a copyright problem but you can find it at http://www.uniforminsignia.net/index.php?p...104&sid=731

Regards,

Gordon

Edited February 21, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

There has been a brief halt in my posting to this thread as I was contacted by a collector of Hungarian Police uniforms who said he felt the M51 uniform that I started this thread with was not a police uniform. After communicating with him, through another Hungarain collector, it became apparent that the colour on his screen must be way off, making my uniform look blue/green (Finance Guard) instead of the police blue that it is. Having resolved that problem, I am now prepared to continue posting to this thread. I want to back up a bit and deal with the M51 police uniform again.

During the Hungarian Revolution, there was a set of rank regulations published in a newspaper, for the armed forces members who supported the revolution to wear. Charles has posted these regulations in another thread so I won't go through them all again but it appears, from a uniform on display at the Police Museum, that police officers who supported the revolution, adopted the same rank designations as the armed forces. Basically, it meant removing the shoulder boards and collar tabs and placing the rank stars directly on the collar. It was also common for the civilian and uniformed people who supported the revolution to wear the national colours on their left arm approximately half way between the elbow and the shoulder and often a small stripe of cloth in the national colours on their caps in place of the cap badge. I have configured my M51 police tunic exactly as the revolution era one in the police museum is.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited March 5, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

A view of the collar with the rank stars in place.