Lifesaving medals

[Paul R]

My favorite TR medal is the Lifesaving medal. I know that it is a really obscure area, but I just cannot get enough of them. Anyway, as far as I knew there were two accepted variations of this medal...

The solid silver pendant that is hallmarked with the silver purity number and halfmoon(Left). The second variation is the silver plated zinc or tombak.(on the right).

Based on another thread on the WAF, there is evidently a third variation as seen in this thread... There was a heated debate on it and it now has the backing of Detlev.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=116835

What do you all think about this. Have any of you ever heard of this variation? I have the opportunity to trade an item or two for this... I just want to hear some of your thoughts on the matter first.

If you have pics of your lifesaving medals, please post them. Especially those on bars!

Best regards

Paul

PS... I wish to apologize in advance for my crappy ability in photographing these medals. I took about 20 pics of these and cannot seem to get them to come out clearly!

Edited September 26, 2005 by Paul Reck

[Paul R]

back

Thank you all for looking and I look forward to seeing what you all have

[Nick]

Paul

Interesting subject this one and a very overlooked medal. Which is nothing new as it was also downplayed during the Third Reich era as well.

This is a mounted group. The lifesaving medal has been worn by the medals either side and denazified, the other medals on the group had been reversed to hide the swastikas, so I presume that this group had been worn post war at some point, maybe at veterans events. Unfortunately the messing with the medals has caused them to be misaligned.

Back to the life saving medals. This is the silver marked half moon version.

As for the 800 silver marked version this is not one I have heard of before. Looking at the medal on the WAF thread it certainly looks interesting. But just because it appears in a book or has a COA , does it make it original ? I am sure Detlev has his reasons for believing in its authenticity, but I would like to hear others who have knowledge of this manufacture type for this medal.

Nick

Chairman

[Paul R]

That is a beautiful bar, Nick! Despite what it has been through, I would be proud to own it!

What exactly does the COA from him mean? Does it mean if it is not real, he will buy it? I know that he must have given it a lot of thought as he is putting his reputation on the line with each of these COAs he signs. That certificate added another 75 dollars to what the member was going to ask for it before. This variation is so out of the norm that it would be difficult to confuse it with one of the other two types.

I too would love to hear from someone who might know something as I have it set on hold for me pending a trade.

Being a HUGE fan of these, you can see why I am on the fence as to what to do here. Either this is a very rare variation or a total repro.

Thank you for your input, Mr. Chairman.

Best regards

Paul

Edited September 27, 2005 by Paul Reck

[Nick]

Paul

I am not going to go down the road of what I think of COAs, but as for Detlevs if he sold the medal with a COA he would refund the money. I am not sure what happens if a third party sells a medal on with a Detlev COA whether this still means he guarantees it or not.

As for the 800 version I simply do not know either way, it is not something I have seen before.

[Paul R]

Thank you Nick,

I went ahead and wrote the following letter to the company...

Good Evening.

The reason I am writing you is in reference to a Lifesaving medal that you wrote a COA for. This specific medal is the topic on the following link:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=116835

I am thinking of purchasing this medal from the gentleman who you wrote the COA for, but I do have a couple of questions.

1. I thought that the Lifesaving medal only came in two variations... The solid silver version with the half moon, silver purity code, and etc along the rim. The second varitaion I have is the silver plated zinc or tombac(later war). Where did this third variation come from?

2. How common are these in regards to the other two variations.

I appreciate any light you can shed on this for me!

Warmest regards

Paul Reck

Edited September 28, 2005 by Paul Reck

[Scowen]

I was following this thread on WAF & look forward to reading Detlev's reply to your mail Paul.

Cheers

Don

[Paul R]

Here is the reply...

Thanks,

no this version is faily common

there is no identified maker

detlev

Thank you all for following this. If this version is a common make, I wonder why so many people have never heard of it?! I know that Detlev is one of the biggest experts in the field and I might just have to go off of sheer faith on this one.

Best regards

PAul

Edited September 29, 2005 by Paul Reck

[Paul R]

Better photos of my two lifesaving medals...

[Paul R]

backs... The zink one is a lot better in person as all of the details are visible. I dont know why they are not picking up on the scanner!?

[Paul R]

Here are some ribbon bars containing the Lifesaving medal...

The three piece bar in the upper left hand corner is a rare bar made on a bakelite bar.

[Paul R]

Lets see your Lifesaving medal related items!!

[Guest Rick Research]

The two lower ribbon bars above I think aren't Prussian Lifesaving, but Saxon Friedrich August Medals on the war ribbon with the pale blue faded to white-ish. Flipped over, the reverses (you may have to poke gently under the backing) should reveal robin's egg blue.

Now that you are Fully Scanner Qualified maybe you can try some zoomed in on the medals again?

Let me see the back of the LSM/NOK 2 ribbon bar you've mentioned by PM, but from the front I see no problems. That is quite a poignant combination-- one for SAVING the life of someone dear to somebody else, and the other for LOSING a life dear to himself.

Mine are alllllll pre-Third Reich

[attachmentid=14475]

Top one to an imperial navy officer who was a travel agent (!) afterwards and served in the occupation of Greece (possibly at the same places he sent tourists to, before and after again)

Then two to the same army Colonel-- a Baron

Then two pairs to an admiral/naval attach? festooned with glittery diplomatic gongs

One to an extremely obscure Imperial army officer who'd bounced around Germany's (and later Japan's!) Pacific islands,

an utterly anonymous 4 bar, and a highly decorated WW1 officer and WW2 Nazi party functionary.

It took all kinds.

I have the 1833 and 1926 type medals in medal bars, and a complete set of paperwork for the M1926 which has probably been posted in Imperial... I'll go look and post links if so.

[Paul R]

Here is the back of that bar

[Paul R]

Here are new scans of the lifesaving medals... front

[Paul R]

back

[Guest Rick Research]

Typical 1930s bar-- copper flashed steel backing plate should be magnetic. That is the SADDEST two place ribbon bar I have ever ever seen, given the polar extremes of what each ribbon is for.

I couldn't turn up my M1926 documents set or the two medal bars already posted, so I will go and post a new thread in Imperial rather than side-tracking Third Reich here:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3129&hl=

[Paul R]

Rick,

You are right... it is magnetic! You are right... this bar does have a bit or irony to it. That is one of the reasons I like it so much.

Have you ever seen a widow's HC on a bar before?

I am attempting to get a scan of the maker mark on the rim of the Silver LS medal...

Those are some beautiful bars Rick!!! I can only dream!!

Paul

Edited October 30, 2005 by Paul Reck

[Paul R]

here we go...

[Guest Rick Research]

The "Black" Hindenburg Cross was given to widows or parents-- in this case, this would have been a dead WW1 soldier's father wearing that ribbon bar-- probably on his civilian jacket lapel. I say that rather than a mailman or railways employee just about to retire because there are not the other routine long service awards that a career uniformed civil servant of that type, born circa 1870, would have gotten by 1918.

Here's the rim x315% via my Amazing Ricky Powers:

[attachmentid=14496]

[Paul R]

The "Black" Hindenburg Cross was given to widows or parents-- in this case, this would have been a dead WW1 soldier's father wearing that ribbon bar-- probably on his civilian jacket lapel. I say that rather than a mailman or railways employee just about to retire because there are not the other routine long service awards that a career uniformed civil servant of that type, born circa 1870, would have gotten by 1918.

This is now my favorite ribbon bar! I bet that this is a one of a kind combination!

I can only imagine what this gentleman went through. This bar speaks a lot!

Paul