Austria-Hungary Clarification about various types of FRANZ JOSEPH Order

[lilo]

Hello,

Below I have attached a photo containing 2 models/types of the Order of franz Joseph (the 2nd model with and without swords).

What I would like to know are :

1) When (the exact year) was the 2nd type/model was instituited ?

2) Where the 'swords' introduced ONLY (i.e. NOT before) from 1915 ?

Awaiting to hear from you again

All the Best

Lilo

Edited April 5, 2008 by lilo

[hunyadi]

1st model from my sources seem to indicate that it should be 82mm in diameter. this was the 1849 model

2nd models were created in 1872 were 92-95mm in diameter. The wreath indicates that it is a war medal - without swords for behind the lines type of serivce - with swords for more 'frontline'

Edited April 6, 2008 by hunyadi

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

the stars of the "old type" were in use until the '70s of 19th Century (many pieces are struck with the post-1867 gold and silver control and assay marks). I think that the "change" happened gradually.

The Kriegsdekoration to the Fanz Josef Orden was introduced in a later time than to the other Orders of the A-H Monarchy. This happened at the end of 1914-early 1915 for the lower classes of the order, while the KD to the Star was instituted on August 13th, 1916.

The Swords were instituted (for all classes of the FJO) with Imperial Decree of December 13th, 1916.

Best wishes,

Enzo

Edited April 6, 2008 by Elmar Lang

[lilo]

Hello Hunyadi / Enzo,

Thank you both for the very precious information supplied !

Enzo

1) Can you confirm that what you call 'Kriegsdekoration' is that with the 'GOLD WREATH' around the rays of the breast star (with and without swords) of which I posted above a photo ?

2) You also mentioned the 'KD' to the Star : what class is the 'KD' ?

I apologise for these stupid questions but the Orders of the A-H Monarchy are not my area of expertise.

Thanks again very much

All the best

Lilo

Edited April 7, 2008 by lilo

[speedytop]

Hi Lilo,

The "Kriegsdekoration" (abbreviation KD) is for war merits (Verdienste im Krieg), that is the golden laurel wreath around the star (the star in the middle).

This breast star is for war merits.

The KD is not another class; without KD it is in peace time (left star), with KD it is in war time.

The swords were added for merits under enemy action (Verdienste vor dem Feind).

Therfore the laurel wreath and the swords (right star).

This breast star is for war merits under enemy action.

Regards

Uwe

Excuse my bad English

Edited April 7, 2008 by speedytop

[lilo]

Hello Uwe

No problem at all for your english : I have understood perfectly what you mean !

All the Best

Lilo

I also sent you a PM

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

Speedytop gave all the further answers you were waiting from me...

Nice to see so many people interested in the A-H Orders & Decorations!

Best wishes,

Enzo

[lilo]

Hello,

Speedytop gave all the further answers you were waiting from me...

Nice to see so many people interested in the A-H Orders & Decorations!

Best wishes,

Enzo

Many thanks for your interest and help Enzo.

All the Best

Lilo