Noor Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Some months ago I post here this two place bar:Now I have this bar "older brother" and I would like to know, what people think about that.To me its look like there has to be:Crown OrderGeneral Honour Decoration+St Stanislaus ribbonSt Anna ribbonSt Stanislaus ribbonI think this one has to be a officer bar. Probably some Honor Guarde Regiment?All the information and ideas would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Nope. That's a Prussian/Reichs long service, followed by (probably) a Red Eagle Order Medal (because of the precedence) and then a variety of Tsarist Russian Medals for Zeal on the various ribbons.This is either BEFORE 1897, ro just about 1914 (no 1897 Centenary Medal) to a non-commissioned officer in either the Imperial Navy or one of the Prussian Guards regiments whose "Chief" was the Tsar.EXCELLENT find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I'm pretty sure this was a guy's from Kaiser Alexander Garde-Grenadier Regiment Nr. 1, Berlin - but the blue ribbon strucks me. Cannot be LW2, but nothing else possible up to 1913 for an NCO with the plain blue ribbon. Now, makes this it an officer's or an 1913/14 NCO-bar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Any of the M1913 long service awards, worn 1913/14.That's why I think it is more likely a 1913/14 bar than a pre-1897 one--though it is always possible that a "ready made" bar was made with hooks on back that were not actually USED, if only worn as a ribbon bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 though it is always possible that a "ready made" bar was made with hooks on back that were not actually USED, if only worn as a ribbon bar.Sure, always possible - but then, for a pre 1913 bar it should be behind the "yellow-white whatever it may be for" ribbon, peut-?tre even behind the Russians. So we're on 19313/14 NCO for sure, yes? The bar used to come with a three place button ribbon (some years older, yet without the second stanislaus and the blue ribbon) and some pins, don't know if those are still with the bar? It was those pins that indicaded Alexander-Garde - I had this still in mind but looked it up by now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 No, Red Eagle Order Medal came behind long service awards, which is what makes me indecisive about this, since that is far more common as a Navy award than an Army one.http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&autocom...&img=862#18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 The bar used to come with a three place button ribbon (some years older, yet without the second stanislaus and the blue ribbon) and some pins, don't know if those are still with the bar? It was those pins that indicaded Alexander-Garde - I had this still in mind but looked it up by now...Yes, they are still with the bar Will post them here as well soon now!Thanks guys for the information and very interesting conversation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 (edited) and here they are... sorry, light was very bad to make proper shot but its still better then nothing: Edited April 14, 2008 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Thanks Noor, I almost feared one more group split up... No, Red Eagle Order Medal came behind long service awards, which is what makes me indecisive about this, since that is far more common as a Navy award than an Army one.Rick, I then was still talking about if it was a pre 1913 NCO bar with a empty ribbon or "Spangenst?ck" to one of the pre 1913 bars - those were far behind (usually last position) as actually no medal bar awards. The post 1913 long service awards outrank the Red Eagle medal as the older long service crosses did, yes. I'm pretty sure I was right with my guess it's an "Alexander" soldier by the pins, so it's army, not navy - but "Garde". Now, any chances to find an 1913/1914 NCO from a Berlin regiment by his decorations? If we knew which Russian decorations he actually held maybe the 1909 DOA might help, if he had them yet back than which is rather unlikely. I wonder why this guy was that heavily decorated by the Tsar, but had just one (merit) medal from his own king... ? It looks unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted June 1, 2008 Author Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) Any more toughts about those bar(s)?I think they are really nice ones!!!!!!! But can please someone post up here picture of the Kaiser Alexander Garde-Grenadier Regiment Nr. 1 flag/insignia, etc what would be nice next to this bar on display?I will try to find more information about this unit anyway but if you guys have smart books, maybe they can make my research easer then using just internet (I know, I but pressure on to get good reference books to myself as well but its not easy like you know ).Also can someone please advise me about the value of the first bar for a record?Some main information what I found out:Commander of this regiment was from 1896 Helmuth von Moltke (is it right? - "Helmuth Von Moltke and the Origins of the First World War ")!!!!<H2 style="MARGIN: auto 0in">Prussian Garde Infantrie Brigade</H2>Kaiser Alexander Garde-Grenadier Regiment Nr. 1 (Berlin)K?nigen Elisabeth Garde-Grenadier Regiment Nr. 3 (Charlottenburg)Garde-Sch?tzen Batallion (Gross-Lichterfelde) Also this marche is probably from this unit...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zak_P6O2RbcRegards,Timo aka Noor Edited June 2, 2008 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 Internet is great sometimes...Here is regiment insignia, like I understand: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) And here is one another pin what belongs to the group! Like some of you know, MAYBE I want to focuse more in the future but this set is something what I just LOVE more and more because the combination Germany-Russian! Its the one of the best exaples I think, how well the royal connections worked then! Edited July 20, 2008 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landsknechte Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Here's my one example: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) heres one i sold a few yrs ago ! hessen noncom with russian medal of zeal! :speechless: Edited July 19, 2008 by scottplen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 Very nice ribbon and medal bars!!! Not many of them around at all!Here is one of my Saxony medal bars with "Zeal medal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Upper Garde Regiment 5 place bar is something what stays with me. Because I don't have after very hectic previous months much left and I still would love to be busy on the collecting field, I tought I try to put some effort into the items whats left and this one is surelly my favorite! So, few questions: 1. As I understand combination of that bar is most likelly a. Long Service award b. Order of the Red Eagle medal (can't be General Service decoration because in this case it should be front of the LS?) c. St.Stanislaus ribbon - medal for zeal, etc d. St.Anne ribbon - Order of St.Anne medal/medal for zeal e. St.Stanislaus ribbon - medal fo zeal 2. Is there any regimental award lists/books about this regiment? 3. Is any 1913-1914 award list shows "foreign" awards? 4. Any more ideas about this set? Where to look, who to contact? 5. How often shows up that regiment NCOs shoulder boards on sale and how much they usually go for? All the best guys for 2011!!! Timo Edited January 8, 2011 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Some info is available (Thanks to Ed Muller) Werich "Russian Orders. Medals and Decorations" Page 46 and following: NCO should have gotten a zeal medal on Alexander Nevsky ribbon A private 1st or 2nd class got small silver Zeal medal for 3 years service on St Stanislaus ribbon if he reinlisted. (5th ribbon on bar) An enlisted man who was eligible to retire but re-enlisted got the zeal medal on St Anne. (4th ribbon on bar) The 3rd ribbon on bar could be another re-enlistment or something else? Probably must be something "hihger" then 4th and 5th ribbon. My next question is was it allowed to wear more then one came class/size zeal medals on the bar? Edited January 8, 2011 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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