powder ingredients

[helen]

hi,

We are planning a new display on firearms at the museum I work at.

The police have told us no black powder or gunpowder can be displayed due to H&S/fire rules, which is understandable (all cartridges and barrels have been emptied).

However, I would like to display small samples of the individual ingredients (with the police's permission) to aid visitor understanding.

From my understanding these ingredients are carbon (charcoal), saltpetre (potassium nitrate) and sulphur. The first is pretty easy to obtain but does anyone know where you can safely and legally get hold of either saltpetre and/or sulphur? It doesn't matter to much if they are in raw or refined form - we're certainly not going to do some at-home experimenting!

Any suggestions appreciated.

With thanks

Helen

[Dresden]

hi,

We are planning a new display on firearms at the museum I work at.

The police have told us no black powder or gunpowder can be displayed due to H&S/fire rules, which is understandable (all cartridges and barrels have been emptied).

However, I would like to display small samples of the individual ingredients (with the police's permission) to aid visitor understanding.

From my understanding these ingredients are carbon (charcoal), saltpetre (potassium nitrate) and sulphur. The first is pretty easy to obtain but does anyone know where you can safely and legally get hold of either saltpetre and/or sulphur? It doesn't matter to much if they are in raw or refined form - we're certainly not going to do some at-home experimenting!

Any suggestions appreciated.

With thanks

Helen

Helen,

Try a Model shop, HO coal for railroads looks very much like black powder

Edited May 2, 2010 by Dresden

[SWL]

Sulphur can be obtained from most hoticulture suppliers as it is used as a fungicide.As for saltpeter I don't know where to get this from.

Regards.

swl

[Brian Wolfe]

If I were going to purchase potassium nitrate I'd look for it at a garden supply store. It's used in fertilizer.

As far as making your own gunpowder, it's easier said than done. Mixture has to be exact as well as the consistency of the ingredients. What I am getting at is that a display of such ingredients should be fairly safe, or so my good friend Stumpy always used to say.

Regards

Brian

[regimentalrogue]

For saltpetre:

From Wikipedia: Potassium nitrate

Potassium nitrate is the main component (usually about 98%) of tree stump remover, as it accelerates the natural decomposition of the stump.^[9] It is also commonly used in the heat treatment of metals as a solvent in the post-wash. The oxidizing, water solubility and low cost make it an ideal short-term rust inhibitor.

Amazon.com: Tree Stump Remover

For sulphur samples, in stable crystal forms:

http://www.minfind.com/search.php?qs=Sulphur

Edited October 14, 2010 by regimentalrogue

[helen]

hi, well the charcoal was easy, and managed to palm some potassium nitrate from the local university chemistry department. We were advised by conservationists that the sulphur might deteriorate and 'leak' vapour over time (even though the substances are in sealed crystal boxes, no doubt some gas will escape over the course of several years) so in the end we got some bright yellow chalk and crushed it down into powder - it looked a fairly good match and it was just to give folks an impression. I wouldn't think about trying to mix my own gunpowder as I've heard it's very tricky to get the amounts right!

Thanks for all your comments.

Helen

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Helen. The Chinese managed well enough !

[peter monahan]

hi, well the charcoal was easy, and managed to palm some potassium nitrate from the local university chemistry department.... I wouldn't think about trying to mix my own gunpowder as I've heard it's very tricky to get the amounts right!

Helen

Beat me to the punch, Helen! I was going to suggest whichever company supplies school labratories in your area. I have gotten ingredients for 'slowmatch' that way, through the post, in Canada. And the company apparently has no qualms about shipping off to individuals like myself - scary thought - though that may be different where you are.

Yes, the 'secret' to gunpowder is the mix. That and 'corning' it so it burns more rapidly. Too much of any one ingredient and one gets either a quick 'whoose' or a long low 'fizzle' and an almighty stink, as opposed to a short sharp 'bang'.

Mixing it up in the wrong conditions - static electricity is really bad - can be hazardous to one's health but wearing your Saint Barbara medal is guaranteed to protect you from that too!

Peter

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Peter,

Just an observation.

It would seem that the likelihood of an explosion while attempting to produce an explosive compound or any such similar endeavour increases exponentially with the number of video devices in close proximity times the number of alcohol beverages consumed.

Video cameras X number of brews = Youtube

Regards

Brian

[peter monahan]

Hello Peter,

Just an observation.

It would seem that the likelihood of an explosion while attempting to produce an explosive compound or any such similar endeavour increases exponentially with the number of video devices in close proximity times the number of alcohol beverages consumed.

Regards

Brian

Brian

Absolutely! "You might be a redneck if someone in your family's last words were "Hey, y'all! Watch this!". Or, as any number of police reports put it so succinctly, "Alcohol may have been a factor." :speechless:

[vonmesser]

Nitre can be obtained "naturally" in 2 diffeent ways. It has been referred to as "Privy gold boiled down" and "dung-hill gems".

Method 1 is to boil down urine until you get a white crusty flake (according to legend, urine from wine drinkers is best)

Method 2 is to scrape the white flakes and crystals from dried excrement (usually from cows).

My personal recommendation is to obtain it from a chemical; supply store. Go in person and let them know you are only after a small amount (ounce or so) for a display, and they may just give you what you need for free.

[Mervyn Mitton]

VonMesser - wecome to GMIC. I think they got the ingredients sorted out - if they haven't blown the

Museum up ? Tell us a little about yourself and what you collect ? Mervyn

[Kev in Deva]

Hopefully suitable warnings will be displayed to stop people attempting to create the mixture in its volatile form?

On history channel t.v. shows I did notice they never reveal all of the ingredients with regards explosives, to prevent

idiots trying to make the stuff.

Any Legal concerns if "johnny comes lately" blows his fingers off, and then tries sues the people who mounted the exhibition listing ingredients?

Kevin in Deva. (Overs 21 years military service.)

[helen]

hi vonmesser - yes, the 'natural' methods of procuring nitrate sounded rather more cumbersome and unpleasant than just popping over to the chemistry department! Mervyn - no explosions as yet, and these displays were installed two years ago. We have a black powder box tucked away in the stores which we keep an eye on too! Kev - no, no 'don't try this at home' warnings - we are not obliged to legally, and the information regarding ingredients is out there online / in print etc anyway if they're really that keen to try blowing themselves up!

Helen