Robin Lumsden Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) I have just received this goblet. It was presented to Rittmeister Hemmerde by the Officer Corps of the 1st Leibhusaren Regiment. It is engraved with the names of 27 donor officers, who read like a 'Who's Who' of German nobility. It's made by Wagner in 750 silver.The thing is - there's no date on it.Can anyone tell me who Rittmeister Hemmerde was, and when he served in the Leibhusaren?Judging by the engraving, I think it might be mid-19th Century.Here's the front. Edited November 4, 2005 by Robin Lumsden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 Here's the side. (My precious!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 There's a finely enamelled guard star on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 And here are some more of the names of the donor officers, who might give a clue as to the date.Can anyone with better knowledge of Imperial research than me lend a hand here?Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Robin,Rittmeister Hemmerde was initially commissioned on the 12th of July 1870 and promoted to Premier-Lieutenant on the 25th of July 1878. He is shown in the lists I have as certainly serving with the 1. Leib-Husaren-Regiment Nr. 1 from 1877-1885. It would appear that he was originally an Infantry Officer serving in the Niederrheinisches F?silier-Regiment Nr. 39. He retired on the 12th of November 1885 with a simultaneous promotion to Rittmeister.RegardsGlenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerookery Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Only 15 years before retirement? Seems a short time. Any thoughts on this?Super cool goblet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 He would certainly appear to have been a social fish out of water in THAT crowd, so he must have had LOTS of money to spread around, while it lasted.Perhaps he had no choice--he could have been medically discharged.He'd not in the 1908/09 Orders Almanac or in the 1914-18 Honor Rank List, suggesting he was dead by 1908. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 5, 2005 Author Share Posted November 5, 2005 (edited) Glenn & Rick.That's great information.Many thanks to you both.One last thing - what was his first name? Edited November 5, 2005 by Robin Lumsden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 lovely piece, robin!SUUM CUIQUE.might i ask for a translation in light of the Leibhusaren.both my sons Latin and Latin textsdon't get me to a satisfactory interpretation.thanks!joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 5, 2005 Author Share Posted November 5, 2005 lovely piece, robin!SUUM CUIQUE.might i ask for a translation in light of the Leibhusaren.both my sons Latin and Latin textsdon't get me to a satisfactory interpretation.thanks!joeIt means 'To Each His Own'. It doesn't really relate to the Leibhusarenregiment, but it's on the guard star and imperial Orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Robin,I have not been able to determine his first name yet.I would agree with Rick that it looks like he was pensioned-off with the permission to wear regimental uniform at the 15 year point probably on account of being physically no longer fit for service.With regards to the 1908/09 Orders Almanac, he did not have any awards listed in the 1884 Rang- und Quartier-Liste, the year before his retirement.RegardsGlenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 (edited) Thanks again Glenn. I think he was fortunate (or unfortunate, depending on the point of view) that his period of service was a peacetime one. Probably no chance to 'cover himself in glory'. Edited November 6, 2005 by Robin Lumsden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Well, he was commissioned in 1870, which means he had some version of the 1870/71 campaign medal-- depending on whether he was in the field or a stay at home.The Prussian lists did NOT show war medals so we have to go by rank dates and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian von Etzel Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Robin, could you please show us the Wagner mark. The cup is really nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Thanks Rick. My knowledge of Imperial stuff is pretty limited, as you can gather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Robin, could you please show us the Wagner mark. The cup is really nice!Brian.No problem.Just give me 10 minutes or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Brian.Here is the Wagner mark. I'm also adding some other pictures to show the names of the donor officers. I have no doubt your ancestors knew some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Here are some of the officers named on the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 More officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 And some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 More. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 And the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian von Etzel Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 (edited) I would certainly try to dig up a copy of the Reg. history from the Franco Prussian war on the Niederrheinisches F?silier-Regiment Nr. 39. He might have been quite the hero.Robin, I certainly recognize the last names, and some of them appear as young men in my grandfather's photos. Very possibly some of their sons served with von Etzel. And, some of these guys were no doubt known by Leo as they were more in his age group....just deciphered a photo with a v. Mueller. Edited November 6, 2005 by Brian von Etzel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Here's the guard star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 And the best bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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