Serbia Serbia - rare medal for bravery

[orden_master]

A very rare medal indeed unfortunately it is a fake !!

ebay item

regards

Milan

[JimZ]

Always good to point these things out.

Thanks Milan.

Jim

[orden_master]

To better illustrate the fact that this medal is faked I will add some pictures of the same medal but an item which is 100% OK and out of the appropriate period.

First you have to look at the embossing of the inscriptions, they are not work, and even if you would be assuming that they have been worn, the gold plating was made afterwards. But talking seriously it is obvious that a original medal was mould-copied and the freshly gold plated.

[orden_master]

And here is the reverse

[orden_master]

[orden_master]

[orden_master]

I think that the pictures are talking for themselves.

Best regards

Milan

[sneaky]

You forgot to mention that the medal was made in different versions, some with sharff hallmark some without, some with different diameters than others. What is the diameter of your medal? can you give me info on that? your medal apparently doesn't have the manufacturer's hallmark.

Edited December 6, 2008 by sneaky

[Emanuel]

Greetings to all,

I assume that we are dealing with the cheaper Silver version that has been Gold plated afterwards.

One is sure,it has a gold plate intervetion as it is clear from the photos.

Milan you might know that was a Silver version but I do not posses photos to put up this moment.

Nice that you pointed this sale,let's see what "feed" this buyer will send back

Emanuel

[sneaky]

Hi Emanuel,

It's not the silver version, the silver version looks different. It doesn't have a profile picture of Obrenovich.

[Dejan]

Hello to all.

I am a new member of this Forum.First of all I would like to thanx Milan who sharing his photos with us.His collection and knowledge is enormous.

I contacted the seller and he gave me dimensions (33.5mm) and weight(13.9gr).

My opinion is that the ebay medal is authentic and the details are not as sharp as they should be because it was plated with too much gold which destroyed the sharp details.This spring I saw fake Bravery 1877 and it was much heavier with more crude details.

My "base" collecting is edged weapons but I show you some of mine medals, orders and badges of Kingdom Serbia and Yugoslavia.

[Dejan]

photo 2

[Dejan]

photo 3

[Dejan]

photo 4

[Emanuel]

Greetings Dejan,

you are most welcome here.

As for the medal, I spoke to a couple of guys that have more knowledge with these kind of medals and they told me that this medal is genuine, just have a new Gold paint - might from the owner that gave this to the seller- but I reckon that this medal is genuine.

Regards

Emanuel

[orden_master]

Absolutely correct

there are two versions of this medal, the one on my pictures without the "Scharff" writing underneath the bust and the one of the medal on ebay which has the writting. Nevertheless the medals are same size and same working.

And I am still standing with my opinion that the medal offerd is a fake !

You forgot to mention that the medal was made in different versions, some with sharff hallmark some without, some with different diameters than others. What is the diameter of your medal? can you give me info on that? your medal apparently doesn't have the manufacturer's hallmark.

[orden_master]

I am looking for more detailed pictures I should have. But in the mean time here is one with all thre medals from my collection.

The far most right medal is the one with the "Scharf" writing.

Regards

Milan

[sneaky]

I know my native language is English but I don't understand at all what you mean by "First you have to look at the embossing of the inscriptions, they are not work"? Also, if you're a true experienced collector, aren't you supposed to have your lense in your hand and look through it at the medal "in your hands" to truly make an opinion about the authenticity of a medal? at least that's how I know evaluations of collectibles are done, anything else is would be he said, she said. Also, what are your crudentials to make such evaluations? any certificates or licenses you may hold to make your opinion stand a bit more firm? I hope you can back up your claim with solid evidence.

To better illustrate the fact that this medal is faked I will add some pictures of the same medal but an item which is 100% OK and out of the appropriate period.

First you have to look at the embossing of the inscriptions, they are not work, and even if you would be assuming that they have been worn, the gold plating was made afterwards. But talking seriously it is obvious that a original medal was mould-copied and the freshly gold plated.

[Yankee]

Interesting enough the Serbs issued several medals for the war with the Turks. As I understand from this thread the 1877 bravery medal is extremely rare compared to the later one that has a laural wreath & shield of arms. Is this because the 1877-78 bravery medal replaced the 1877 and not a chance to award so many soldiers with the former or is it because the 1877 Prince Milan is a higher ranking bravery medal then the 1877-78 medal. Thanks in advance.

Yankee

[sneaky]

Milan, I guess you can't explain what you said. "First you have to look at the embossing of the inscriptions, they are not work". Your opinion seems to lack solid proof and explanation and hence your premise seems to be unfortunately not true. This is one of the ways you degrade your reputation, unfortunately.

[orden_master]

Hello Sneaky

as I wonder why you are concerned about this topic I assume that YOU are the seller of this wonderfully faked medal. Yes english is not my native language and as it happens there was a typing mistake.

I think that I have surely seen more items of this medal than you. I have at least a comparative number of more than ten items. So I think that I can say, just from looking at pictures , if there is a high probability (near 100%) that this medal is is not genuine.

The embossing of the present medal shows no wear and you can see that the gilding was done afterwards, the gilding is softening the contours of the letters (embossed) and the look "smoother" than they should.

Regarding my reputation you can leave it on my own what I will do with it it is absolutely not your concern.

Regards

Milan

Milan, I guess you can't explain what you said. "First you have to look at the embossing of the inscriptions, they are not work". Your opinion seems to lack solid proof and explanation and hence your premise seems to be unfortunately not true. This is one of the ways you degrade your reputation, unfortunately.

[sneaky]

Hello Milan,

I'm NOT the seller, but somebody who was interested in this medal and I contacted the seller with some questions about the history of this medal. The seller informed me that the medal was the property of an older gentleman who's father had the medal issued to. It was in his son's posession for over 20 years and that his son decided to take it to the jewelry place and have it re-plated. Now that I believe the seller's story, which I have a strong reason to believe it since I bought many items from him before (high priced items as well) and established a trustworthy business relationship with him. I've bought and seen many medals and orders at live auctions, etc... I've never seen a true experienced collector hold a medal of this age and examine it with his naked eye but always with a magnifying glass, this tells you VOLUMES about the reason they do that. Thus, for you to tell a medal is not original by simply looking at picutres of it online (not even good macro pictures at that) is simply unacceptable not only to me but to many reputable collectors. Your thread has been going on for some time now and I wonder how you were the only one who gave this opinion. This as well tells volumes. Please don't ask your forum friends to write their opinions as it's a bit late. Everybody likes to write opinions in forums we all know that and if they agreed with you they would've done so long time ago.

My recommendation to you is to ask for macro pictures of the medal at least, if you don't have the chance to hold it in your hand and examine it with your magnifying glass (I assume you have one as an experienced collector). I didn't mean to offend your reputation or anything like that, I was simply being straight forward and truthful.

Best Regards,

Jeremy F

[Andrej75]

Here's another one, same seller...looks authentic

http://cgi.ebay.com/SERBIA-GOLD-MEDAL-FOR-...93%3A2|294%3A50

[Emanuel]

Yeah,

As I see also he got a rare Silver Bravery medal from Milan I era.Looks in great condition too.

[Andrej75]

I think that's a silver bravery medal from the Serbo-Bugarian war 1885-1886. Haven't seen many of them on sale