WNickel Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hi Rick,Brunswick from 1914 until 1916 is done... Allers Hermann Bra Student Jolzminden J Bra BrRM 00.00.1911Asche Karl Bra Sch?ler Neubr?ck J Bra BrRM 00.00.1899Beck August Bra Kontordiener Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1872Becker I. Pr Musketier Braunschweig IR 92 J Bra BrRM 00.00.1884Beims Albert Bra Metallschleifer Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1907Bremer August Bra Bahnarbeiter Holzminden J Bra BrRM 00.00.1914Bubeck Heinrich Bra Kaufmann Bremen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1907Busse Wilhelm Bra Postillon Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1891Buttenberg Bra Steiger Frellstedt J Bra BrRM 00.00.1890B?hle August Bra Brieftr?ger Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903B?hmke Heinrich Bra BadeMstr Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1899B?ndel Konrad Bra Sch?ler Holzminden J Bra BrRM 00.00.1902B?tticher Bra OSteuerkontrolleur Blankenburg J Bra BrRM 00.00.1892Cuers Wilhelm Bra Steuersupernummerar Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1878Dehn Christian Bra Student Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1910Dony Kurt Bra Student Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Ehlers Bernhard Pr Ser Braunschweig IR 92 J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Engelke Bruno Bra B?ckerMstr Wieda J Bra BrRM 00.00.1899Erdmann Walter Bra Sch?ler Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Fesq Walter Mar Matrose Riddagshausen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1904F?rster Bra Steueraufseher Gandersheim J Bra BrRM 00.00.1883Genter Heinrich Bra Musiker Gandersheim J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Genzel Leonhard Bra Musiker Holzminden J Bra BrRM 00.00.1881Gier Bra W?chter K?nigslutter J Bra BrRM 00.00.1913Gl?ser Fritz Bra G?rtnergehilfe Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1908Gohl Hugo Bra Handlungsgehilfe Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Gottschlick Emil Pr Musketier Braunschweig IR 92 J Bra BrRM 00.00.1908Grahl Christian Bra Schmiedelehrling Emlinghausen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Grimm Hans Bra Landwirt Thedinghausen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Grote Alexander Bra OTertianer Holzminden J Bra BrRM 00.00.1881Gr?fe Julius Bra Tischler Sier?e J Bra BrRM 00.00.1905G?nther Alfred Bra Kaufmann Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1907Heyne Pr UFF Braunschweig IR 92 J Bra BrRM 00.00.1885Hund Hermann Bra Maschinenschlosser Teichh?tte J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Husung Karl Bra Zimmergeselle Greene J Bra BrRM 00.00.1880Idczak Josef Bra Bergmann ?lsburg J Bra BrRM 00.00.1904Kaesewieter Albert Bra SteuerInsp Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Kraatz Willi Bra Malerlehrling Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1900Kricheldorff Hermann Bra Kaufmannslehrling Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1913Kr?mer Artur Bra K?rschner Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1901Kumlehn Hermann Bra Lotteriehauptkontrolleur Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1904K?chler Otto Bra G?rtner Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1914Lampe Robert Bra Schlachtergeselle Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1910Lieben Ferdinand Bra Maurerpolier Wenzen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1878Lindemann O. Bra Soldat Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1870Lippelt Kurt Bra PolizeiSer Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Luja Wilhelm Bra Malergehilfe Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1895Mack Bra Apothekergehilfe Thedinghausen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Mast Rudi Bra Forstschutzlehrling Gandersheim J Bra BrRM 00.00.1896Maul Wilhelm Bra Ackergehilfe Veltenhof J Bra BrRM 00.00.1914Maushake Hugo Bra Kaufmann Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1904Meyer Helmuth Bra Sch?ler Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1913Meyer Konrad Bra Stra?enfeger Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Mlaske Franz Bra Lohgerbergeselle Gandersheim J Bra BrRM 00.00.1902Mohmeyer Gustav Bra Formstecher Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1886Natalis Friedrich Bra Polytechniker Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1887Oppermann Heinrich Bra Schlosserlehrling Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1907Otto Ewald Bra Student Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1913Papenburg Walter Bra Sch?ler Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Pfannkuche Bra Techniker Helmstedt J Bra BrRM 00.00.1886Reckler Fritz Bra G?rtnerlehrling Wenden J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Ro?bach Paul Bra Schlosser Wolfenb?ttel J Bra BrRM 00.00.1910R?hland Ad. Bra PolizeiOWM Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1911Salge Rudolf Bra Handlungsgehilfe Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1895Salomon Julius Bra Halbsp?nner Pabstorf J Bra BrRM 00.00.1896Schiffmann Alfred Bra Klempner Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1901Schiller Dr. Rudolf Bra Apotheker Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1910Schlue Wilhelm Pr OSchirrMstr Wolfenb?ttel Art-Nebendepot J Bra BrRM 00.00.1913Schneider Adolf Bra Hauptseminarist Wolfenb?ttel J Bra BrRM 00.00.1915Schneider Paul Pr Feuerwerker Wolfenb?ttel ArtDepot J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Schrader Pr UFF Braunschweig IR 92 J Bra BrRM 00.00.1882Schulz Hermann Bra Trompeter Braunschweig HR 17 J Bra BrRM 00.00.1880Sch?fer Fr. Ed. Bra Arbeiter Ahlum J Bra BrRM 00.00.1898Sch?ppe Karl Bra Lehrer Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1886Spies Gustav Bra Primaner Wolfenb?ttel J Bra BrRM 00.00.1887Stelling Karl Bra Maschinenw?rter Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Steltzer Jog. Chr. Bra Kollegianer Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1861Sternberg Karl Bra M?llergeselle Helmstedt J Bra BrRM 00.00.1895St?lting Martin Bra Gymnasiast Helmstedt J Bra BrRM 00.00.1886Wilhelms Franz Bra Kontorist Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1873Willikens Bra H?ttenDir Bad Harzburg J Bra BrRM 00.00.1886W?hlbier Wilhelm Bra Gep?cktr?ger Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1905W?lk Friedrich Bra Bergmann Wolsdorf J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Zimmermann Erich Bra Hilfslehrer Wendeburg J Bra BrRM 00.00.1905Campe Bra Rittergutsbesitzer Deensen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1895Grone Pr H Braunschweig Fl?geladj. Herzog J Bra BrRM 00.00.1914Werlhof Karl Pr L Braunschweig HR 17 J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Werner, Did you use the state and court book for you BrRm list? the 1916 Br. St. und Crt. lists all RM holders from 1861 forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 :jumping: Werner! I have a feeling my ribbon bar belonged to an NCO so he will be dissguised as a civilian on the list if not one of the active duty "invisible" NCOs. Paul will get the Court And State to me and I will type out grades of the Henry the Lion to compare who had BOTH among these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNickel Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hi ,yes, I use the state and court book and have listed all awards. Now I must complete them with the original rolls.... Rick show me your ribbon bar and I will look about.I don't know if I had shown it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hoho-- mitX on THAT for Dt SWA should be "easy" with the rolls!!! Mine is more tricky since ONLY the two peacetime Brunswick awards are on any List anywhere: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNickel Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 ...it's very easy....Paul Schneider.... :jumping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 So THAT'S why he never got commissioned! This is what's left for my Suspects List, then: after removing people with known groups of other awards, ancient civilians, school boys AFTER 1897 etc:Asche Karl Bra Sch?ler Neubr?ck J Bra BrRM 00.00.1899B?hle August Bra Brieftr?ger Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Beims Albert Bra Metallschleifer Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1907Bremer August Bra Bahnarbeiter Holzminden J Bra BrRM 00.00.1914Bubeck Heinrich Bra Kaufmann Bremen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1907Campe Bra Rittergutsbesitzer Deensen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1895Ehlers Bernhard Pr Ser Braunschweig IR 92 J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Fesq Walter Mar Matrose Riddagshausen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1904Genter Heinrich Bra Musiker Gandersheim J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Gier Bra W?chter K?nigslutter J Bra BrRM 00.00.1913Gl?ser Fritz Bra G?rtnergehilfe Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1908Gohl Hugo Bra Handlungsgehilfe Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Grimm Hans Bra Landwirt Thedinghausen J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Gr?fe Julius Bra Tischler Sier?e J Bra BrRM 00.00.1905G?nther Alfred Bra Kaufmann Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1907Hund Hermann Bra Maschinenschlosser Teichh?tte J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Idczak Josef Bra Bergmann ?lsburg J Bra BrRM 00.00.1904Kaesewieter Albert Bra SteuerInsp Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Kr?mer Artur Bra K?rschner Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1901Kricheldorff Hermann Bra Kaufmannslehrling Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1913K?chler Otto Bra G?rtner Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1914Lippelt Kurt Bra PolizeiSer Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1912Luja Wilhelm Bra Malergehilfe Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1895Mast Rudi Bra Forstschutzlehrling Gandersheim J Bra BrRM 00.00.1896Maul Wilhelm Bra Ackergehilfe Veltenhof J Bra BrRM 00.00.1914Meyer Konrad Bra Stra?enfeger Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Ro?bach Paul Bra Schlosser Wolfenb?ttel J Bra BrRM 00.00.1910R?hland Ad. Bra PolizeiOWM Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1911Salge Rudolf Bra Handlungsgehilfe Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1895Salomon Julius Bra Halbsp?nner Pabstorf J Bra BrRM 00.00.1896Sch?fer Fr. Ed. Bra Arbeiter Ahlum J Bra BrRM 00.00.1898Schiffmann Alfred Bra Klempner Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1901Schiller Dr. Rudolf Bra Apotheker Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1910Schlue Wilhelm Pr OSchirrMstr Wolfenb?ttel Art-Nebendepot J Bra BrRM 00.00.1913Spies Gustav Bra Primaner Wolfenb?ttel J Bra BrRM 00.00.1887 DtOrdAlm Amtsrichter?LD2Stelling Karl Bra Maschinenw?rter Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1903Sternberg Karl Bra M?llergeselle Helmstedt J Bra BrRM 00.00.1895W?hlbier Wilhelm Bra Gep?cktr?ger Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1905W?lk Friedrich Bra Bergmann Wolsdorf J Bra BrRM 00.00.1909Here are the birthdates of three recipients of the "BrRM" who were members of the Reichsbund der Inhaber der Rettungsmedaille E.V. in 1937--Maushake, Hugo: born 24.09.1882Sch?ppe, Karl: born 27.08.1859Zimmermann, Erich: born 15.11.1885Sincethe RBdInh dRM E.V. directory does not say WHICH lifesaving medal was held, didn't know they had the one from Brunswick. Everyone else in the Brunswick local group apparently had a PRUSSIAN "?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNickel Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hi Rick,what do you mean???? Husung Karl Bra Zimmergeselle Greene J Bra BrRM 00.00.1880Husung Bra KreiszimmerMstr Greene J Bra BrHdL 5b 00.00.1909Lindemann O. Bra Soldat Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1870Lindemann Dr. Otto Bra H?tteninspektor aD Goslar J Bra BrHdL 3b 00.00.1913Maushake Hugo Bra Kaufmann Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1904Maushake Bra Rentner Dobbeln J Bra BrHdL 5a 00.00.1908R?hland Ad. Bra PolizeiOWM Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1911R?hland Bra KriminalpolizeiOWM Braunschweig J Bra BrHdL 5a 00.00.1910Schiller Dr. Rudolf Bra Apotheker Braunschweig J Bra BrHdL 3b 00.00.1912Schiller Dr. Rudolf Bra Apotheker Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1910 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Husung Karl Bra Zimmergeselle Greene J Bra BrRM 00.00.1880Husung Bra KreiszimmerMstr Greene J Bra BrHdL 5b 00.00.1909 Naaaaaahhhhh, TOO OLD for 1916 ribbon bar with 4 frontline awardsLindemann O. Bra Soldat Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1870Lindemann Dr. Otto Bra H?tteninspektor aD Goslar J Bra BrHdL 3b 00.00.1913Naaaaaahhhhh, WAAAAY TOO OLD -- he was an 1870 veteran (Orders Almanac)Maushake Hugo Bra Kaufmann Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1904Maushake Bra Rentner Dobbeln J Bra BrHdL 5a 00.00.1908Maybe that was TWO maushakes? Could somebody 26 be a rentner? The BrRM recipient (if these are two different men) was only 15 in 1897, so my ribbon bar can't be hisR?hland Ad. Bra PolizeiOWM Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1911R?hland Bra KriminalpolizeiOWM Braunschweig J Bra BrHdL 5a 00.00.1910Could be, could be. A Feldgendarme during the war? Schiller Dr. Rudolf Bra Apotheker Braunschweig J Bra BrHdL 3b 00.00.1912Schiller Dr. Rudolf Bra Apotheker Braunschweig J Bra BrRM 00.00.1910Could be, could be-- called up for the war-- it will all depend on finding out his age! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I looked threw the list but didn't find one I suspect more than others - I didn't find any officer. Maybe he got it before his career. But, what rank has this Werlhof? Sorry, don't get all the abbreviations here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 My ribbon bar's wearer was on active duty on 22 March 1897 (Centenary Medal) so even if a reservist or draftee or One Year Volunteer, he'd have had to have been born about 1876.No officer match, so either one of the NCOs or policemen or a civilian reservist "disguised" here by his day job title. If nobody else had any grade of the Henry the Lion, that brings suspects down to R?hland (typically policemen were ex career NCOs) or the pharmacist Dr. Schiller who may never have been commissioned as either a pharmacist or a reserve officer before the war.My bet would be on R?hland.Werlhof was a Leutnant when the war started... so impossible to be him.That's how I've eliminated people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Stupid question, what does Bra mean? TIA R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Werner, I hava a 1913, 1914 and 1915 Brunswick Court and States handbook. Do you have or know if the Brunswick C/S exist for 1916, 1917 or 1918? I would love to get a copy of those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Rick-- That's the designation here for "Braunschweigisch" for natives, while "Pr" indicates "Preu?isch" and so forth. It's kind of like Mad Scientist "equation shorthand" or whatever. "Research gnomish." :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Werlhof was a Leutnant when the war started... so impossible to be him.Oh, me fool was talking about my bars, but forgot to mention. But though, you could have remembered them as there are not "to many" out... So: Werlhof was a Leutnant when the war started... so possible to be him?! It is almost the same as Werner's bar to von Grone, but not exactely - Oldenburg and Austria, plus yet I'm ignoring the pre-war orders as they were not always worn on war time ribbon bars. Is there a list with Bavarian MVOs to Non-Bavarians...? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Nope.. you've absolutely got von Grone's bars: double Lifesavings, BMV4X, MK2... like you say, Fashion Statement versions of not all his awards being worn. Why, out of all his peacetime German Orders, he should have decided with these ONLY to wear his OV3b...maybe these were his "When Friedrich August comes to visit" bars.BMV4X 15 May 1916.What is really odd is that he should have slighted Prussia's "?" so badly when by all regulations it should have been in second position-- but yours confirm that Brunswick "BrRM" wearers tossed this award at the back end of their groups. Weird for something so important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Aaah, that's an OV3b, thought it were an Friedrich August-Kreuz and missed it on the medal bar. THANK YOU! :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Rick-- That's the designation here for "Braunschweigisch" for natives, while "Pr" indicates "Preu?isch" and so forth. It's kind of like Mad Scientist "equation shorthand" or whatever. "Research gnomish." Thanks, makes sense which is no doubt why I couldn't figure it out R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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