ccj Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Medaille Militaire 1870I have had many over the years and I don't know how to tell an 1870 from any made up to 1845. Does anyone know how to tell the manufacture year or are there various types that are different than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 Medaille Militaire 1870 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 Medaille Militaire 1870 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 Medaille Militaire 1870 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Hello Charles,Basically, there are 3 models for the M?daille Militaire : 1852, 1870 and the post-WWII model. Among these three models, it is generally accepted that 9 types exist albeit with numerous variations, luxury pieces, etc. etc. ... a very complex award :-)Here's a 1st model (2nd type) example, easily recognizable by its eagle suspension :Cheers,Hendrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 29, 2008 Author Share Posted November 29, 2008 Hello Charles,Basically, there are 3 models for the M?daille Militaire : 1852, 1870 and the post-WWII model. Among these three models, it is generally accepted that 9 types exist albeit with numerous variations, luxury pieces, etc. etc. ... a very complex award :-)Here's a 1st model (2nd type) example, easily recognizable by its eagle suspension :Cheers,HendrikBeautiful, French medals are very attractive. I've heard the Luxury pieces are the two sided and were only awarded to generals. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 (edited) The "Generals'type medals" are simply very well made badges, mostly during the 1870-1940 period (IIIrd Republic).In fact, they were made by a number of private firms, jewelers and makers of orders and decorations, and openly sold to whoever felt like having a rather better m?daille militaire. This is perfectly straighforward in the French system.The term "Generals' m?daille militaire" comes from the fact that the m?daille militaire can only be bestowed upon a general (or a Marechal de France) who won significant battles as a commander in chief. He also had to have previously received the Grand Cross of the Legion of honor. These general officers would probably buy one of the well made badges, hence the nickname.After WW2, both General Eisenhower and Sir Winston Churchill received the M?daille militaire as the supreme military award France could give them. Chances are they were presented with the finest types that could be found. But they might also have received a basic Mint-manufactured badge.All this is, of course, confusing when you also know that only NCOs and rank and file are eligible to this award, either for extreme valour (the equivalent to a British DCM) and as a long and efficient service award (the equivalent to th British MSM).RegardsVeteran Edited November 29, 2008 by Veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 So, are the double side types private purchase?I thought maybe the double sided were for generals or maybe the earliest manufacture. Are the double sided much more rare than the rest? I know the standard MM are not expensive at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) Are the double sided much more rare than the rest?Yes they are scarce but not too much.Since Hendrik has shown a 1st model, 2nd type, let me present a 1st type of my collection. This one is very rare and I keep it preciously:http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2008/post-2068-1228064952.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2008/post-2068-1228064984.jpgNote the eagle posture and the colors of the ribbon wich are different.RegardsBison Edited November 30, 2008 by Bison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 Bison, That is a very nice MM and I don't think I've ever seen the reserse of one before. It's most attractive and detailed.Can you post other variations of the Medaille Militaire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) Can you post other variations of the Medaille Militaire?Ouh la la! This is a huge issue, and I am afraid that few people in France know exactly how many different variations they are.I can start with this model of the 4th Republic, made by the jeweller Paul Delande : Edited November 30, 2008 by Bison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Reverse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 The Trophy : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Reverse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Sorry, I have forgotten to mention that this is one type of the 9th model...RegardsBison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 Sorry, I have forgotten to mention that this is one type of the 9th model...RegardsBisonGreat, you only need to show me the first 8 models now.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) O God, do you want really to kill me?Here is a classification :SECOND EMPIRE1st Model ? PRESIDENCE ? Head of Napol?on III ? mention "LOUIS NAPOLEON"VALEUR ET DISCIPLINEThe eagle touches the medal2nd model, "SECOND EMPIRE"Head of Napol?on III ? mention "LOUIS NAPOLEON"VALEUR ET DISCIPLINEThe eagle does'nt touch the medal. IIIrd R?publique3rd Type called "MONOBLOC AUX CANONS" single pieceHead of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"Trophy of arms, single face4th Model "MONOBLOC A LA CUIRASSE" single pieceHead of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"Trophy of arms, double face (breastplate only)5th model "BIFACE AUX CANONS" two piecesHead of CERES ? mention"REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"trophy of arms articulated with a ring, double face (canons only )6th model "BIFACE A LA CUIRASSE " two piecesHead of CERES ? mention REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870VALEUR ET DISCIPLINEtrophy of arms articulated with a ring, double face (canons and breastplate)7th model "MONOFACE A ANNEAU" two piecesHead of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"trophy of arms articulated with a ring, single face8th model "MONOFACE A CHARNIERE"Head of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"Trophy of arms articulated with a hinge, single faceIVth & Vth R?publique (27/02/1951)9th model, trophy single faceHead of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE" - * (star) or***(stars) other nothing, or ?? (dots)"VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"Trophy (single face) of arms articulated with a hinge or a ring...RegardsBison Edited November 30, 2008 by Bison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) IIIrd R?publique3rd Type called "MONOBLOC AUX CANONS" single pieceHead of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"Trophy of arms, single face4th Model "MONOBLOC A LA CUIRASSE" single pieceHead of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"Trophy of arms, double face (breastplate only)5th model "BIFACE AUX CANONS" two piecesHead of CERES ? mention"REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"trophy of arms articulated with a ring, double face (canons only )6th model "BIFACE A LA CUIRASSE " two piecesHead of CERES ? mention REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870VALEUR ET DISCIPLINEtrophy of arms articulated with a ring, double face (canons and breastplate)7th model "MONOFACE A ANNEAU" two piecesHead of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"trophy of arms articulated with a ring, single face8th model "MONOFACE A CHARNIERE"Head of CERES ? mention "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE ? 1870""VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE"Trophy of arms articulated with a hinge, single faceIS THERE A BOOK OR REFERENCE THAT SHOWS THESE 6 MODELS OF THE III REPUBLIC?Would the 7th or 8th model would be WW1? Edited November 30, 2008 by ccj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 Is this a 4th model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 This last picture is the MONOBLOC AUX CANONS type, also known as "Versaillaise" since it was also given to the troups who crushed the "Commune de Paris" battle in May 1871. These were regular army under the orders of the French Government whose seat was in Versailles, a few miles west of Paris.It usually is rather poor workmanship, and really quite valuable. Possibly the second rarest type after the Presidence type shown by Bison. This third type was in use for a short period after 1870-71, the early years of the IIIrd Republic.Congratulations, a very nice badgeVeteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 This last picture is the MONOBLOC AUX CANONS type, also known as "Versaillaise" since it was also given to the troups who crushed the "Commune de Paris" battle in May 1871. These were regular army under the orders of the French Government whose seat was in Versailles, a few miles west of Paris.It usually is rather poor workmanship, and really quite valuable. Possibly the second rarest type after the Presidence type shown by Bison. This third type was in use for a short period after 1870-71, the early years of the IIIrd Republic.Congratulations, a very nice badgeVeteranActually Veteran, it's not my medal because I've been reluctant to buy it because of the high price. I don't know the correct value for this or other double or semi double sided medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Great thread guys. Can you fill in the dates for the:FIRST EMPIRESECOND EMPIREIIIrd R?publiqueIVth R?publiqueVth R?publiqueMerci :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Hello Darrell,It's just a wee more diversified, I think :1st Republic (1792-1804)1st Empire (1804-1815)Restoration (1815-1830)July Monarchy (1830-1848)2nd Republic (1848-1852)2nd Empire (1852-1870) 3rd Republic (1870-1947, incl. Vichy & Prov. Gov.)4th Republic (1947-1959) 5th Republic (1959-now)I would appreciate Bison and/or Veteran checking this for accuracy ...Cheers,Hendrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Hendrik's information is basically right. I might simply add or change the following :Restoration really was 1814-1830 with the short 100 Days period (March 1815) when Napoleon came back from the Island of Elba to be sent to Saint-Helena after Waterloo (June 1815). During that period the King Louis XVIII was in exile in Gent.The IIIrd Republic was formally founded in 1875 and probably one should consider 1940 as its end. That year, the French State was established by the Government of Marshall P?tain who had received full powers from the French Parlement.The 1943-1947 period is extremely difficult to describe. But it certainly was not the IIIrd Republic anymore.Except for these small details, I fully agree with Hendrik, who obviously has a remarkable command of the recent history of France. Congratulations.Veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Rietveld Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Very intersting thread,one question. I once sold this miniature via ebay (12 Euro). was it the monobloc aux cannons-typ? or am I wrong?regardsjosef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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