I need help with my dad's awards/medals

[JonErik]

Hey guys i hope you can help me iv been searching online alot but i still dont have the exact answers i need.

My dad was in the Army for 22 years, he joined in 69 left in 72 and reinlisted in 75 i belive. Im not 100% sure on this anyway he was E-7 until about 1983 or somewhere around there as you can tell by the time he got promoted really fast, he later became a Chief Warrent Officer skipping 1 right away and promoted to CW2 when he finished the officer school stuff, later on he went onto CW3 and right before he retired they offerd him CW4 but he declined due to being sick of the way the army was changing in his words. He was in Military Intel and in the early years a Paratrooper with the 82nd airborne eventually retired in 93

I have his DD214 form which he told me before he died wasnt properly updated to what he earned in the Military. Its been 11 years now since he died in 98 from cancer and i want to make some kind of Shadow Box with all his Medals and rank and ribbons ect. Im very proud of my dad and what he accomplished being in the Army he was a very smart guy i have papers from all the class's he took in the army all the stuff he was in charge with in Military Intel letters of recomendations and acheivements from the Secretary of defense and Generals and Colonels. Sadly this is all i have he was buried with his Uniform his Ribbons and stuff and when i was a little kid i used to play with his medals outside losing them ect so all i have are 4 of them.

Sorry for the long description i just wanted everyone to know a breif history. As i said before his DD214 form and it doesnt show what he was awarded based off pictures and what i have. Im looking at old pictures from when he was a E6-E7 i cant find any from his Warrent officer days cept the last one my mom took of his uniform she put together for him to be buried with and i can name 4 things that arent on his records.

Defense Meritorious Service Medal, i have 2 of the Unit Ribbons that go on the oposite side of the uniform one is solid red another is red with green in the middle, another his is Marksmen award with rifle hanging under it. None of these are on the DD214 i have.

I orderd a copy of his records from the National Archive a few days ago so i will see what the "Updated" i hope one says. If this one doesnt have these awards on it what do i need to do to get them put on ? Another Medal i know he should have is the Korean Defense Service Medal. Something newer Bush in 2002 made that all service members from 1954 to now who served 30 days or more in Korea should have. He was in Korea for over a year its where he broke his ankles so that needs to be on the recored also.

How do i go about getting these medals and Ribbons for my shadow box? I found website selling as they say "Authentic" medals but i dont trust them im going into the army base today to see if i can get them there but if not id like to know what you guys think in the meantime.

Here is a picture of his Uniform "Please note the 2 Unit award ribbons and Marksmen thingy arent on this my mom didnt relise that goes on it " but as you can see the first ribbon is the Defense meritorious service ribbon but this isnt on the dd214

Here are the awards that werent on that uniform but that are on pictures that i have and of course i have them in person, these arent on the DD214 form and i want to know why

Here is a picture of the decoration part of the DD214 form that i have

Edited January 12, 2009 by JonErik

[Mike Dwyer]

www.usmedals.com sells authentic US military medals. They also sell their own, made-up, commemorative medals so make sure you're looking at the right section.

Also, if I remember correctly, you must have been a member of a unit at the time a unit citation was awarded to be able to wear the unit citation permanently on your uniform. I may have missed it, but I didn't see those two unit citations listed on your dad's DD214. For example, I served for a while in the 988th Military Police Company, and we wore the red one that you have. It was awarded to the unit in WW2 so I only got to wear it while I was assigned there, once I transferred out I had to take it off of my uniform.

[JonErik]

www.usmedals.com sells authentic US military medals. They also sell their own, made-up, commemorative medals so make sure you're looking at the right section.

Also, if I remember correctly, you must have been a member of a unit at the time a unit citation was awarded to be able to wear the unit citation permanently on your uniform. I may have missed it, but I didn't see those two unit citations listed on your dad's DD214. For example, I served for a while in the 988th Military Police Company, and we wore the red one that you have. It was awarded to the unit in WW2 so I only got to wear it while I was assigned there, once I transferred out I had to take it off of my uniform.

oh i didnt know that about the unit thing, but his rifle marksmen thing isnt on his dd214 form neither is the defense meritorious service medal. How do iget them to properly reflect this and the koreon defense medal, and the upcomming cold war medal if it goes through?

As you said you didnt see the Unit Ribbons on the DD214 form, this whole form is screwd up its missing so many awards. Im reading on google that alot of people 's DD214 forms are missing some medals they should or did get. I guess i have to go to war with the government now or something ..

Edited January 12, 2009 by JonErik

[Doc]

As for getting an updated DD214, information needed is at: http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-...ce-records.html I would recommend you request a current copy before starting to request changes-- they may have already updated it, and it would save you some work.

That website also tells you how to submit requested changes. To submit changes, you will need to be able to prove he was awarded or was eligible for other awards-- the Korea one is easy as that is simply a date of assignment thing. Others, you will need some documentation. Photos of him being awarded other medals are good, written statements from his previous commanders would help, Officer Efficiency Reports mentioning them (rarely done) would help. Certificates or orders are the best evidence-- I hope you have some of that.

Was your father also a pilot? I note that the necktie holder you posted is the badge of a senior Army Aviator. If he was not a pilot, that one isn't really his. The two red unit awards are: Army Meritorious Unit Citation (all red) and Army Superior Unit Award-- previous commenters correctly noted that you generally can wear those only when assigned to the unit which won them, unless you were assigned at the time they qualified for the award, and then you can wear them permanently. If he was not in the unit at the time of award, they probably wouldn't be on the DD214 (but if you want to put them on the uniform, I doubt that anyone would object).

Other medals on the uniform: Joint Meritorious Service Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal, Army Commendation medal (can't tell what is on it-- should be 2 oak leaf clusters), Joint Service Achievement Medal, Army Achievement Medal, Good conduct Medal (with a bunch of attachments), Army of Occupation (probably from a Berlin Assignment), National Defense Service Medal (probably should be a star on it for multiple periods-- VN and post 1990), NCO Professional Development Ribbon, Army Service Ribbon, Overseas Service (should have a 2 on it).

The photo is bad, so I can't tell if you have an OLC on the AAM or not, but there should be one according to the DD214.

I don't know if marksmanship awards are usually placed on the DD214 or not-- Normally, those are considered only temporary badges, which can be downgraded or upgraded after your next trip to the range and fireing for record. None of mine were ever placed on the DD214. You'd have to talk to a military personnel officer about that.

Your best bet may be to go to the nearest Army base and talk to an NCO in the military personnel office-- I'm sure they can help you out. See if there is a local American Legion or VFW post nearby-- often they have experts within their groups who help on things like this as a hobby. They are often very helpful.

As next of kin, you can request replacement ribbons (document they were lost) from the government.

Good luck in getting your dad's records straightened out. Doc

[Francois]

Do you have a better picture....I kind of guess most of them, but a better picture would be super.

Thank you.

[Francois]

I am sorry I did not seen the form, thank's.

Very nice medals by the way...

Edited January 13, 2009 by Francois

[JonErik]

Hey guys i have another question for you.

Iv been digging through my dads old records from when he first enlisted back in 1970, and i have a form called DA Form 20, and on the back it says (Awards and Decorations) and under neeth i see his "PRCHT BDGE" or Parachute Badge. There are also M60 Badge W/BAR, M72 Badge W/BAR, M79 Badge W/BAR, H/G or H/6 "im not sure if its g or 6) W/BAR, M16 Badge W/BAR.

Now i have his Expert Qualification Badge and on it has only 1 bar that says Rifle.

Should there be more on this then just Rifle? Like the M60, M72, M79, H/G, M16 ? I assume M72 would be Grenade Launcher, H/G is Hand Grenade and so forth ? Or am i mistaken ?

Edited January 14, 2009 by JonErik

[Sivart]

Hey guys i have another question for you.

Iv been digging through my dads old records from when he first enlisted back in 1970, and i have a form called DA Form 20, and on the back it says (Awards and Decorations) and under neeth i see his "PRCHT BDGE" or Parachute Badge. There are also M60 Badge W/BAR, M72 Badge W/BAR, M79 Badge W/BAR, H/G or H/6 "im not sure if its g or 6) W/BAR, M16 Badge W/BAR.

Now i have his Expert Qualification Badge and on it has only 1 bar that says Rifle.

Should there be more on this then just Rifle? Like the M60, M72, M79, H/G, M16 ? I assume M72 would be Grenade Launcher, H/G is Hand Grenade and so forth ? Or am i mistaken ?

The parachute badge would be authorized for wear on his uniform, 1/4 inch above the top row of ribbons. Army officers, including warrant officers, do not wear marksmanship badges of any type, so the ones you have were from his enlisted career, before he went to the "darkside". A maximum of three bars are authorized per marksmanship badge, though I have seen PX ranger types sporting five before!

Also, if that tie tack represents an award he recieved, there should be a senior aviator badge there somewhere. It would be worn 1/2 inch above the parachutists badge.

Sivart :cheers:

Edited January 14, 2009 by Sivart

[Doc]

The parachute badge would be authorized for wear on his uniform, 1/4 inch above the top row of ribbons. Army officers, including warrant officers, do not wear marksmanship badges of any type, so the ones you have were from his enlisted career, before he went to the "darkside". A maximum of three bars are authorized per marksmanship badge, though I have seen PX ranger types sporting five before!

Also, if that tie tack represents an award he recieved, there should be a senior aviator badge there somewhere. It would be worn 1/2 inch above the parachutists badge.

Sivart

Sivart-- do you have a regulatory reference for the "fact" that officers don't wear marksmanship badges? AR 670-1 does not make any such distinction, and AR 600-8-22 says that marksmanship badges may be awarded to all military (and a few civilian) personnel. They certainly were earned and worn in the late 70s and early 80s by officers in my units. I know many officers do not wear them (I have always believed that most officers can't shoot worth a damn, and simply didn't want to wear "sharpshooter" medals when their enlisted troops could demonstrate a higher level). I always wore mine with my uniform (expert on several weapons) as an officer, and none of my superiors ever questioned it. I never questioned it as a commander when my officers wore them, as I could not (and cannot) find a regulation which prohibits it. Doc

[Sivart]

Sivart-- do you have a regulatory reference for the "fact" that officers don't wear marksmanship badges? AR 670-1 does not make any such distinction, and AR 600-8-22 says that marksmanship badges may be awarded to all military (and a few civilian) personnel. They certainly were earned and worn in the late 70s and early 80s by officers in my units. I know many officers do not wear them (I have always believed that most officers can't shoot worth a damn, and simply didn't want to wear "sharpshooter" medals when their enlisted troops could demonstrate a higher level). I always wore mine with my uniform (expert on several weapons) as an officer, and none of my superiors ever questioned it. I never questioned it as a commander when my officers wore them, as I could not (and cannot) find a regulation which prohibits it. Doc

Doc - The only regulation I have seen which precludes officers from wearing marksmanship awards is that of foreign marksmanship awards in AR 600-8-22, Apendix D. I was speaking of my own exprience, I have never seen an officer wear marksmanship badges of any kind. In speaking to various field grade officers at hand, it is apparently unofficial knowledge that they are not to be worn, because as they put it, "Officers are expeced to be experts at everything!" It is definatey the norm now, and without being official or "fact", it is common knowledge. However, as you know, many micro-cultures exist within any army and certain specific behaviors are observed and enforced, without regard to regulation. Since the soldier in question served much nearer to the time frame that you did, I expect that your answer may be more correct in this case.

Sivart :cheers:

[JonErik]

Doc - The only regulation I have seen which precludes officers from wearing marksmanship awards is that of foreign marksmanship awards in AR 600-8-22, Apendix D. I was speaking of my own exprience, I have never seen an officer wear marksmanship badges of any kind. In speaking to various field grade officers at hand, it is apparently unofficial knowledge that they are not to be worn, because as they put it, "Officers are expeced to be experts at everything!" It is definatey the norm now, and without being official or "fact", it is common knowledge. However, as you know, many micro-cultures exist within any army and certain specific behaviors are observed and enforced, without regard to regulation. Since the soldier in question served much nearer to the time frame that you did, I expect that your answer may be more correct in this case.

Sivart

Well the pictures i have on him during his officer times he didnt have this badge on i belive. He was with military Intelingence for the better part of 17 years he wasnt a Grunt, these were just qualification badges i belive when he was a Paratrooper for a short time.

So anyway maximum of 3 4 5 i dont care i want to put them all on to reflect everything he earned in my shadow box, which ones do i need to buy based off what i said up top becasue i cant find bar's saying M60,M72,M79,H/G, M16. I have no idea what these guns are besides the M16 and Handgrenade. If he has Rifle, then i assume he would Machine Gun aka M60, Hand Grenade, Grenade Launcher M79?, M16/M72 Rifle ?

I am right in assuming they go on the little badge in my picture up top right ? The paper does list them under his awards, but they also only give MKM or marksmen to the M16, the rest i dunno what the abreviations say but they are under awards givin

Edited January 14, 2009 by JonErik

[Doc]

JonErik, good evening. From AR 600-8-22:

Weapons for Which Component Bars are Authorized

Weapons: Rifle

Inscription: Rifle

Weapons: Pistol

Inscription: Pistol

Weapons: Antiaircraft artillery

Inscription: AA Artillery

Weapons: Automatic rifle

Inscription: Auto Rifle

Weapons: Machinegun

Inscription: Machinegun

Weapons: Field Artillery

Inscription: Field Arty

Weapons: Tank Weapons

Inscription: Tank Weapons

Weapons: Flamethrower

Inscription: Flamethrower

Weapons: Submachine Gun

Inscription: Submachine Gun

Weapons: Rocket Launcher

Inscription: Rocket Launcher

Weapons: Grenade

Inscription: Grenade

Weapons: Carbine

Inscription: Carbine

Weapons: Recoilless rifle

Inscription: Recoilless rifle

Weapons: Mortar

Inscription: Mortar

Weapons: Bayonet

Inscription: Bayonet

Weapons: Rifle, small bore

Inscription: Small bore rifle

Weapons: Pistol, small bore

Inscription: Small bore pistol

Weapons: Missile

Inscription: Missile

Weapons: Aeroweapons

Inscription: Aeroweapons

M72 is a LAW, Light Antitank Weapon

M79 is a grenade launcher

Doc

Edited January 14, 2009 by Doc

[JonErik]

Ok thanks doc so in otherwords i should add

Machinegun

Rocket launcher

Grenade

To the Qualification badge i have in the picture up top right ?

[Doc]

Sounds OK to me. Doc