Question on 1870/71 clasp entitlement

[Ed_Haynes]

As I dig about and get caught up on cataloging, old items (near-forgotten) float to the surface and bring questions with them.

As I read Rick's interesting thread on clasp entitlements for the 1870/71 medal, I generate a theory of "17th Infantry Division". How wrong am I?

Edited January 13, 2009 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

And the backside (back side?). The Verdienstkreuz f?r Kriegshilfe is obviously a late add-on.

[HeikoGrusdat]

what is really interesting here is....

that a "normal" medal bar in correct mounting order has been changed into a "frack bar" - now in completely wrong mounting order....

[dond]

Actually, I think someone, either the recipiant or his family added his last award to the bar vice getting a new one made.

[Ulsterman]

Hmmmm... what is really interesting is that many of the 17th ID got additional bars for operations (Orleans, Le Mans etc.).

The Loigny-Poupry clasp is rarish: Mecklenb.-Dragoner Regt. 17/18 or..

a big wound?

He may, with luck and MUCH effort , be findable, as Glenns' 1870 EK2 list would narrow the search.

Then through a process of exclusion ( prior to 1917 death, additional medals, 1866 service etc. etc.. )

A retired Major's bar?

Edited January 13, 2009 by Ulsterman

[Guest Rick Research]

There is no long service award so I'd say a former active officer who left early, then in some sort of civil service job where the KO4 was his career "glass ceiling."

The poor old War Effort Cross ended up allllll over the place--nobody paid any attention to where it was SUPPOSED to be.

The oddball mounting suggests that his perfectly nice pre-WW1 bar was simply "skinned alive" and placed intact on that backing, with the War Effort Cross improvized as some sort of cheapo "economy" measure. He was old and possibly retired by then, pinchin pennies.

This could even date from the 1920s and again simply be a penny-pincher from Anything Goes days.

[HeikoGrusdat]

he got his war aid cross at the age of around 70 ............. :wacky:

[Ulsterman]

It happened-lots of Kyfserbund guys helped out. Also, civil servants recalled to do war work. I've seen pictures of geriatric forestry officials and wartime postmasters with them.

[Claudius]

As I dig about and get caught up on cataloging, old items (near-forgotten) float to the surface and bring questions with them.

As I read Rick's interesting thread on clasp entitlements for the 1870/71 medal, I generate a theory of "17th Infantry Division". How wrong am I?

"old items (near-forgotten) float to the surface" WOW! If you nearly forgot about this one, I would like to rummage around your collection some time Nice bar.

And to HeikoGrusdat's point...by 1914 this guy was old.

[Claudius]

Hmmmm... what is really interesting is that many of the 17th ID got additional bars for operations (Orleans, Le Mans etc.).

The Loigny-Poupry clasp is rarish: Mecklenb.-Dragoner Regt. 17/18 or..

a big wound?

He may, with luck and MUCH effort , be findable, as Glenns' 1870 EK2 list would narrow the search.

Then through a process of exclusion ( prior to 1917 death, additional medals, 1866 service etc. etc.. )

A retired Major's bar?

BTW: Pardon my ignorance, what is "Glenns' 1870 EK2 list"? Is this a book? Can it be purchased? I would like to look up Johann Karl Blume of the 77th Hanoverian Regiment in the F-P war.

Thanks

[Christian J]

BTW: Pardon my ignorance, what is "Glenns' 1870 EK2 list"? Is this a book? Can it be purchased? I would like to look up Johann Karl Blume of the 77th Hanoverian Regiment in the F-P war.

Thanks

Glenn offers it here

[Claudius]

Glenn offers it here

I'm sorry...this link is not working for me.

Can Glen and his EK2 winner's list be accessed another way?

[Guest Rick Research]

The sales thread has presumably been swept out. You can order the CD from Glenn J. Due to current work situation, he is usually only online weekends. Leave him a PM. :beer:

[Claudius]

The sales thread has presumably been swept out. You can order the CD from Glenn J. Due to current work situation, he is usually only online weekends. Leave him a PM.

danke ;)

[Ulsterman]

BTW: Pardon my ignorance, what is "Glenns' 1870 EK2 list"? Is this a book? Can it be purchased? I would like to look up Johann Karl Blume of the 77th Hanoverian Regiment in the F-P war.

Thanks

He is # 2965 on the EK2 award list: an Unterofficer

[Claudius]

He is # 2965 on the EK2 award list: an Unterofficer

Korrekt. A corporal in charge of eight men. At the Battle of Spichern they broken into the open and attacked homesteads that laid along a main road leading to the border. After a fight to capture the buildings from the enemy, the French, in contrast to their defensive tact they exhibited earlier that day, took the offensive to regain the lost buildings.

Firing with their Chassepot rifles that had over twice the range of the German's Needle guns, Blume's men and the other seven companies inside had to endure the pounding without effective response. Twice the French infantry assaulted the homesteads and twice they were fought off. Afternoon turned to evening. From out of the setting sun, the French Calvary charged from down the west road and plowed into the Hanoverian's position.

They were repelled. This allowed additional German units to move through the farm houses and onto the slopes that flanked the French's fortified and elevated position on the Heights. Other units went west and fought into the nearby village of Sterling and a forge's slag heaps. In the twilight the battle was over as the French surrendered the field.

(this is the abbr. version from my memory)

Does #2965 on the list mean anything? Does the listing have any other details? Anything...?

[Guest Rick Research]

It is simply a sort of alphabetical (rank and regiment precedence being more important than first names) listing, so it's easy to tell totals on the last page of each type of EK listed. There are no award dates.

This is a sample that I happen to have scanned:

One of the most important things aabout this list is that in contrast to the usual Prussian omission of first names this has them. ACTUAL wartime units are also shown.