Imperial Russia Tsarist Portrait Photos

[Guest Rick Research]

This one always makes me think of the scene in Doctor Zhivago where the elderly retread leads the cadet school boys into the Red machine guns--

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although it bears a Berlin-Charlottenburg Photo Atelier origin on back, it was mailed "In Russia" by a member of the 83rd Infantry Division the first week of Aprl 1916, making no comment on the image-- just a useful postcard sized piece of paper... and leaving us to wonder when and where it was taken, of whom, and how it came into the possession of private Richard Jungmann of IR329....

[Guest Rick Research]

I have NO clue what the combination of fur hat and Ulanka with gorget imply for regiment or rank, but

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That's a St Anna 2nd Class at his throat, a St Stanislaus 2nd class peeping out at his buttons' side, two medals the contrast doesn't allow me to identify (? Mobilization 1914 and ? Romanov Tricentennial 1913) and a screwback school badge.

[Guest Rick Research]

Sweethearts? Sister and brother? Nurse and patient?

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Nothing now to tell us.

He was a Leitenant-- perhaps of aviation branch?

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[Chuck In Oregon]

That's about all you could ask for in a late Imperial photo. Very nice, detailed and clear. I have some and I'll post a few, but yours is about as good as it gets.

I also have two small WW I photo albums, one from the CO of a mule-drawn pack howitzer unit and the other from the CO of a heavy machine gun unit. Both are from the Turkish front. I'm not yet sure how to go about copying and posting them without damaging them. I'll give that some thought.

I know that I would have bought your photo in a heartbeat if I had come across it.

Chuck

[Guest Rick Research]

Although there is no DATE on this one, there is something about the clock in the background being caught at literally a precise SECOND frozen for ever in time....

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Andrei Petrovich Mil'chak writes home that he can be reached at Military Post , Vradievka Station in Kherson Province. The handwriting is rolling, over large, childish-- yet better formed than many a Soviet scribbling harder to read than his Old Slavonic.

... 1:52:32 P.M.

[Pete A]

I have NO clue what the combination of fur hat and Ulanka with gorget imply for regiment or rank, but

That's a St Anna 2nd Class at his throat, a St Stanislaus 2nd class peeping out at his buttons' side, two medals the contrast doesn't allow me to identify (? Mobilization 1914 and ? Romanov Tricentennial 1913) and a screwback school badge.

Can't help with the unit or uniform, but judging by his awards, I'd say his rank is most likely captain or staff captain. Being quite elderly looking, he should have at least 30-40 years of service behind. If that's the case, he sure was no career-rocket. Maybe he is a reserve-officer? The second medal is a 1913 Romanov for sure, but the first one could - besides that mobilization medal - be anything from the 1884 Alexander III coronation to the 1909 bicentennial of Poltava. God only knows.

Pete

[Chuck In Oregon]

<<He was a Leitenant-- perhaps of aviation branch?>>

Here is an aviation shoulder board insignia for closer comparison.

Chuck

[Guest Rick Research]

Do you think that's what the Lt with the nurse is wearing? My scan is, alas, "as good as it gets." The blur is in the original, not my scanning. That is what I thought it must be from the shape of the shadows.

Try NOT to think of the nurse as Zero Mostel in disguise in 1966's "A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum." I said, try not to think that. Stop thinking that!!!!!

[Chuck In Oregon]

<<Do you think that's what the Lt with the nurse is wearing?>>

He has a sly grin and she has major bags under her eyes. I draw no conclusions, however.

The insignia in the photo looks a little bit wide compared to my example. However, mine is the only one I have ever seen, so I have nothing else to compare it to. Surely they were made by a lot of small factories and shops who didn't have much in the way of regulations or guidance. In my heart ... yeah, thats what I think it is.

As for Zero Mostel ... that is a very cruel thing to say to a serious student of history. My sides still hurt and I'll never again see that picture without thinking of it.

Here is what a young ensign in the Imperial Air Service might have given to his sweetheart to remember him by. I have the same with three stars, but not with two.

Chuck

[GeorgeCL]

Here are a couple I have one with crowns and one without..Provisional issue.

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

Very, very nice aviation insignia. I have never seen the provisional example, even in books. Now I know of yet another hole in my collection. It's interesting that they removed the crown but retained the initial.

Chuck

[GeorgeCL]

Very, very nice aviation insignia. I have never seen the provisional example, even in books. Now I know of yet another hole in my collection. It's interesting that they removed the crown but retained the initial.

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

I think it originally had the crowns and they were neatly cut off.

Waste not want not..

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

Hi Chuck,

I think it originally had the crowns and they were neatly cut off.

Waste not want not..

George

* * * * *

Well, that sounds reasonable. As a commanding officer, you might want to show support to the provisional government while you were waiting for things to sort themselves out in St. Petersburg and Moscow.

"Nip off the crowns, boys. That'll do until they send us some new insignia. Should be any day now."

George, your photos are really excellent. Are you using a digital camera on a tripod? My scans are really second-rate compared to your photos. What are your tricks for such clear shots?

Chuck

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Chuck,

I'm useing a Sony CD Mavica CD-500

5 mpeg

Handheld, tripod always gets in the way..

i'd like to get a digital SLR with micro but,,TOO $$$$.

This one runs about $500.00 or so. Maybe less now 1yrs old and outdated I'm sure..

I like it because it burns directly to a small CD no memory cards etc..

George

[GeorgeCL]

This one always makes me think of the scene in Doctor Zhivago where the elderly retread leads the cadet school boys into the Red machine guns--

[attachmentid=16069]

although it bears a Berlin-Charlottenburg Photo Atelier origin on back, it was mailed "In Russia" by a member of the 83rd Infantry Division the first week of Aprl 1916, making no comment on the image-- just a useful postcard sized piece of paper... and leaving us to wonder when and where it was taken, of whom, and how it came into the possession of private Richard Jungmann of IR329....

I stole this from another site

Military Order No. 106 (March 9, 1913) stated that, except Cavalry, almost all Line units would wear a removable plastron for winter parade dress. Color of plastron and piping were to be as follows:

General officers:

- Infantry : red

- Artillery, Engineers, etc: black (velvet/officers) , red piping

General Staff: black (velvet/officers), red piping

Grenadier regiments: yellow with piping according to division: 1st: red, 2nd: blue, 3rd: white; 4th: yellow.

1st Nevsky Infantry regiment: red with white piping

2nd Sofiisky Infantry regiment: light blue with white piping

Other Infantry regiments:

- 1st regiment of division: red (no piping)

- 2nd reg.: blue

- 3rd reg.: white

- 4th reg: dark green or black; red piping

Rifle regiments: raspberry

Artillery, Engineers, Railway, Aviation: black (velvet/officers), red piping

Most other units wore dark green with red piping.

So he was a Grenadier Reg officer before ww1 1913 era

George

[David Gregory]

According to the printed caption written on the back, this photo was taken by

"Photo-Atelier Haase, G?hren a. R?g.

Charlottenburg Tauroggenstr. 4.

z. Zt. im Felde".

The handwritten comment reads "Russians of the 102nd Regiment captured in Nowo-Alexandrowsky. 3 NCOs."

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Details from left to right:

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I assume that the medals and badges worn by all three men are the same. Unfortuanately, I have no other information on the context of this photograph. Any information on the awards would be greatly appreciated.

David

[Guest Rick Research]

Thanks George!!! Is the gorget a Grenadier distinction, or something pertinent to his specific level of rank?

Son of a gun! David, that is the SAME photographer as on my Martial Santa Claus except mine does not have the "currently in the field" line! He's definitely in Russia from the door behind him, so I have been assuming these 20+ years that it was a blank pre-war photo taken by a roaming German photographer, which ended up being sent home with routine "thanks for the package, safely arrived" sort of message in 1916.

Now I wonder if Very Old Dude had given his parole and been allowed to keep his saber...

I know of a German Tsingtau POW marine officer group where that was done-- he was returned his sword upon discharge in Japan in 1920 (things were considerably different in the NEXT war).

The ribboned medals are the 1913 Romanov Tricentennial.

[David Gregory]

Rick,

Thanks for identifying the medal.

The photo came from German eBay some time in the last year or so and, if I recall correctly, was one for which I bid Euro 1 simply to mark it. No one else bid on it, so it inadvertantly became mine.

Only by checking the back of photos is it sometimes possible to reunite groups split and sold over a longer period of time. I wonder if our photos were taken within the same short time frame or in the same area.

I had assumed that the photographer was attached to a higher level unit such as a division or Korps somewhere on the Eastern front, much the same as some of the court photographers accompanied units from specific states (Mecklenburg, for example). I know next to nothing about the Russian OOB, but it would be interesting to find out when and where the Russian 102nd Infantry Regiment served and which German formation captured the NCOs. Judging by the state of dress of the men in both images, either the propaganda machine was hard at work or they do not seemed to have suffered much from the ravages of war when the photos were taken.

Has anyone a clue as to the badges the NCOs are wearing and does anyone have an example to show?

Many thanks in advance,

David