Hungarian UN Service medals

[Greg]

I am searching for some of the ribbon for these medals. Can anyone help me? Or tell me where to go?

These medals were constituted by the Minister of Defence of the Hungarian Republic, in 2004. </FONT>The name of the first medal is: "ENSZ Szolg?lati ?rdem?rem" ( UNO Service Medal of Merit )"

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[Gordon Craig]

Greg,

When you say ribbons are you referring to the trifold ribbon for the medal or the ribbon for the ribbon bar? I live in Budapest and I can look at the next militaria show for you but I think chances are slim. I offered to look for a trifold ribbon for another chap on the forum but was never able to find one. Could have bought the complete medal but not the ribbon by itself.

Regards,

Gordon

[Greg]

Greg,

When you say ribbons are you referring to the trifold ribbon for the medal or the ribbon for the ribbon bar? I live in Budapest and I can look at the next militaria show for you but I think chances are slim. I offered to look for a trifold ribbon for another chap on the forum but was never able to find one. Could have bought the complete medal but not the ribbon by itself.

Regards,

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

I am looking for a length of the flat ribbon to use in court mounting the medal - not the trifold nor the ribbon bar (although I will make a ribbon bar). I have learned that these are Hungarian Defence Department issue and that the ribbon should be available at suppliers.

I would appreciate it if you could let me know the email address or websites of any official medal shops or ribbon suppliers in Hungary.

Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated. I am finding dead-ends on every lead I get.

Thanks,

Greg.

[Gordon Craig]

Greg,

There are no medal mounting shops that I am aware of. The medals are worn on the trifold ribbon as issued in the case so there is no need to "court mount" the medal. I have never seen a length of ribbon material for sale anywhere. It is very rare these days for the dress uniform to be worn. Even then, just usually with a ribon bar. The Gaurd Battalion was disbanded last year so we don't even see them on parade any more. If modern medals were worn on parade I would assume they would be worn on the brass medal device that was used during the Communist period or just pinned on as an individual medal. I'll ask some of my Hungarian collector collegues via email later today. I also have an English speaking Hungarian medal dealer I will be talking to later today and I'll ask him as well.

Regards,

Gordon

[Greg]

Greg,

There are no medal mounting shops that I am aware of. The medals are worn on the trifold ribbon as issued in the case so there is no need to "court mount" the medal. I have never seen a length of ribbon material for sale anywhere. It is very rare these days for the dress uniform to be worn. Even then, just usually with a ribon bar. The Gaurd Battalion was disbanded last year so we don't even see them on parade any more. If modern medals were worn on parade I would assume they would be worn on the brass medal device that was used during the Communist period or just pinned on as an individual medal. I'll ask some of my Hungarian collector collegues via email later today. I also have an English speaking Hungarian medal dealer I will be talking to later today and I'll ask him as well.

Regards,

Gordon

Thank you again, Gordon.

Even if I could obtain a trifold, I could undo it and iron it out flat, I suppose.

Greg.

[Ed_Haynes]

But why in the world would you wish to (British) court mount a medal that would NEVER be worn that way? I am very confused.

[Greg]

But why in the world would you wish to (British) court mount a medal that would NEVER be worn that way? I am very confused.

A Fair question. But if an Commonwealth Officer has been awarded a medal from another country and needed to add it to a rack of other medals, how else would you suggest it be done? Even if such a medal were to be worn in normal court fashion (ie. non trifold), I would still need some ribbon to work with, wouldn't I? If not, please educate me - I am keen to learn.

Greg.

[Ed_Haynes]

Which "Commonwealth Officer" (or NCO/OR for that matter) would . . .

-- have been awarded this medal -- quasi-official at best? -- or are we assuming a hypothetical legitate Hungarian recipient who emigrated to Bristol and then would get something Brit decades in the future?

-- force it screaming and kicking into an alien UK-style mount or challenge his mounting shop to do it right (as did many WWI, WWII, and even later recipients of Russian, Serbian, Soviet, etc. awards)?

But if we're talking about some self-awarding Walter Mitty . . .

Edited March 11, 2009 by Ed_Haynes

[Greg]

Which "Commonwealth Officer" (or NCO/OR for that matter) would . . .

-- have been awarded this medal -- quasi-official at best? -- or are we assuming a hypothetical legitate Hungarian recipient who emigrated to Bristol and then would get something Brit decades in the future?

-- force it screaming and kicking into an alien UK-style mount or challenge his mounting shop to do it right (as did many WWI, WWII, and even later recipients of Russian, Serbian, Soviet, etc. awards)?

But if we're talking about some self-awarding Walter Mitty . . .

This is hypothetical : a British Officer serving on exchange with a NATO ally in Bosnia could be awarded a Croatian medal on a trifold ribbon, or as a training officer in Austria, or on Diplomatic staff etc etc. ..

If a British or Commonwealth Officer/NCO etc was awarded any trifold ribboned medal, how would it be mounted along with his or her other medals ? That IS what I am asking!

It could also apply to a Hungarian who moves to Bristol and is awarded a MBE a few years later.

(and yes, in my novel, I am considering my hero getting such an award - official or otherwise. It would still need to be mounted in a consistent way even if it was worn on the right breast along with a St John Life Saving medal for instance.)

Greg.

[Ed_Haynes]

I sincerely doubt one of those Commonwealth types who still, somehow, need QEII's premission to wear foreign medals would ever receive it for a medal like this anyway.

[Greg]

I sincerely doubt one of those Commonwealth types who still, somehow, need QEII's premission to wear foreign medals would ever receive it for a medal like this anyway.

Okay, seeing that I can't get an answer to my question, let's change the question.

You said "force it screaming and kicking into an alien UK-style mount or challenge his mounting shop to do it right (as did many WWI, WWII, and even later recipients of Russian, Serbian, Soviet, etc. awards)?"

How should they have mounted the trifold ribboned medal with other medals?

Greg.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Greg

[Gordon Craig]

Greg,

I doubt that you could undo a trifold ribbon and use it to court mount the Hungarian medal. There is a metal grommet through one side and getting it out without ruining the ribbon would be very difficult. Re the discussion with Ed, I suspect that they would simply have pinned it onto the tunic under their other medals. My book on modern Hungarian medal regulations does not include the NATO medals. I wanted to look up the regulations to see if the Hungarians would have awarded a Hungarian NATO medal to a foreigner. There is a limited number of Hungarian medals that can be awarded to a foreigner. The foreigners who most often receive current Hungarian medals are foreign Ambassadors who have finished their tour and are about to depart Hungary. I've attahed a foto of a Russian Major wearing a Hungarian decoration. This may not be pertinent to your discussion but I am not familiar with the wearing of ODMs in England.

Following the war, Hungarian officers awarded foreign decorations wore them with their original mounting ribbons fastened to their tunics.

Rgeards,

Gordon

Edited March 12, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[Ed_Haynes]

While not Commonwealth, a very rational and respectful way to deal with trifold ribbons.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

How to force a trifold into a completely anachronistic court mount. (Even if it meant chopping off the crown?)

(And when did court mounts become so common? It used to be you would mount your medals in that fashion only if -- where do you think the name came from -- you have some court involvement. A post-1960s craze, taken up by the collecting mob? It is a pretty mounting style, though.)

Edited March 12, 2009 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

An example of what a competent mounter can do (even if they didn't know or care what was the obverse).

[Ed_Haynes]

I could keep going, but would risk straying even more distantly

[Greg]

Greg,

I doubt that you could undo a trifold ribbon and use it to court mount the Hungarian medal. There is a metal grommet through one side and getting it out without ruining the ribbon would be very difficult. Re the discussion with Ed, I suspect that they would simply have pinned it onto the tunic under their other medals. My book on modern Hungarian medal regulations does not include the NATO medals. I wanted to look up the regulations to see if the Hungarians would have awarded a Hungarian NATO medal to a foreigner. There is a limited number of Hungarian medals that can be awarded to a foreigner. The foreigners who most often receive current Hungarian medals are foreign Ambassadors who have finished their tour and are about to depart Hungary. I've attahed a foto of a Russian Major wearing a Hungarian decoration. This may not be pertinent to your discussion but I am not familiar with the wearing of ODMs in England.

Following the war, Hungarian officers awarded foreign decorations wore them with their original mounting ribbons fastened to their tunics.

Rgeards,

Gordon

Thanks, Gordon. I would still like to find some of the ribbon. Someone must make the stuff!

Greg.

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: Huh? I'm with Ed on this.

A Hungarian medal only awarded to Hungarians would be worn by a Hungarian in Hungarian manner.

This is NOT an "exchange" medal, so anything done to transform it into something else that no REAL person would or could EVER wear would be....

[Greg]

I have asked two separate questions here and still have no clear answers.

1. Does anyone know where I can purchase some ribbon for these medals? (regardless of what I may or may not wish to use it for!)

and trying to be more clear ...

2. For example - Australian regulations stipulate that medals must be court mounted. "IF" a person was awarded "a" (as in not particularly these ones mentioned because of question 1) medal with a trifold ribbon and had to add it to other court mounted medals, how could it be done? ie. is there an acceptable manner in which this might be respectfully and properly mounted in the court style? I note the swing mounted medals illustrated above which have been respectfully mounted.

N.B.: the above question 2. is a hypothetical question out of interest because I enjoy chestnuts like this.

N.B.: Thank you for the previous information. It helps me decide whether it is possible to award such a medal to my totally fictitious character in my realistic but fictitious novel which I am writing in which I am keen to have things done accurately/correctly.

Greg.

[Gordon Craig]

Greg,

Question one- NO.

Question two- As I said earlier, I can find no regulations covering this topic.

Regards,

Gordon

[Paul R]

Whew!! Thank God this is all settled!

Ed,

Again, your collection never fails to astound me! WOW. I have never seen multiple mounting styles on a bar before!! The Russian/British bar is very well done!

Who does that American WW1(and earlier) bar in the B/W photo belong to?