Junger1418 Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Hello gents ! I saw certain crosses with a marking of the manufacturer and in more a marking with numbers as 800 or 950 ! I've seen on this forum it was silver marks ! Somebody can says me what is it exactly ? Do you know other silber marks ? These crosses are private purchase or awarded on the battlefield as the others ? Of when date they ? The beginning or the war end ? Anybody has an idea ?Excuse my frenglishJunger1418 :jumping:
joe campbell Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 crosses with silver marks were generally private purchase items.percent silver include 800, 835, 850, 900, 935; there may be more.hope this helps.joe
Motorhead Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 These numbers are silver content markings.I wouldn't say that only private purchased Eks have them-the most "common" piece that could be an awarded one is the "800" on a "Godet" type Ek! Of course the casted,flat variation. Or remember the "KO 800",The "K.A.G." 800" and some others. But of course there's no safe way to tell which one was awarded and which one was simply bought as an replacement.Micha
Junger1418 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Posted March 8, 2009 :rolleyes: Thanks Joe ! Thanks Micha !Dear Micha have you in your collection some silver marks too, have you a "list" to post here ?So we can found lot of cross marked with silver marks !!Private purchased or not ? That's the question ? Hmmm ? awarded or was simply bought as an replacement cross ?Other opinions there ?? All the bestJunger1418 :jumping:
Brian R Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Check this link...http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/1914_EK1_makers.htm
Junger1418 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Posted March 8, 2009 Check this link...http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/1914_EK1_makers.htmThanks Brian !! But I know this web site !! But I have a question for the silver marks : Private purchased or not ? awarded like others or was simply bought as an replacement cross by soldiers ?Other opinions there ?? All the bestJunger1418
Motorhead Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) I also know this page-Have you ever seen a 1st class "WILM"? Or a "Deschler","N" or an "A"?? So much about lists.We still can't identify the most of the EK makers......To come back the the silver content markings-the best example of an awarded piece with an "800" mark on the back is the famous "CD 800"! I've seen a lot of complete WW1 groupings including awards,documents and stuff like the dog tag or shoulderboards wich included a "CD 800" in the case together with the cardbox. In general the vaulted pieces are private purchased! My oppinion....The majority of EKs with a silver content stamp are vaulted.But not all-so....My maker list of awarded iron crosses 1st class:(All flat,no screwbacks-never!!)CD 800 FrFr W (only a few pieces known,not confirmed in a complete group)FRG H.B.G.WS (in box)WS (engraved)JWS (only a few pieces known,not confirmed in a complete group)K.A.G.KOS-WWeThere is (of course) a "grey zone" with unmarked or just with a silver content marked Eks(flat!!)Here is one of these examples-the most common "standart core"...I've gt also the vaulted variation! Edited March 10, 2009 by Motorhead
Motorhead Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) ReverseSo....what do we have here? Yes,a "WS" type1! An awarded piece? hard to tell(don't forget the vaulted example...) What if "WS"(we belive it's Wagner,but we can't proof it) never made own EKs? If they just bought them complete(or may be they bought the parts) from a "major manufacturer"? Well,speculations,of course. Fact is-this "800" marked Ek could easy be an awarded one!Micha Edited March 10, 2009 by Motorhead
Junger1418 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 :jumping: Thanks Micha !! Great job, man !!But what's about Ek 2's with silver marks : awarded or private purchases ? Do you think all germans makers used silver marks or just a few ?Have they more value like others ? RegardsJunger1418 :speechless:
Motorhead Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) This question is not so easy to answer-you can find the major makers with and without silver content stamp. The majority of all 2nd classes is definitely without a silver content stamp! And a few are stamped only with this stamp,no other maker mark! The value...well,if you are watching the Ebay battlefield you will see that collectors are willing to pay an extra "bonus" for those EKs. So this question could be answered with yes.MichaEdit: In my oppinion nearly all 2nd class crosses have been awarded! just the hollow ones(sheet metal) or the unmagnetic ones(20/30ies) are private purchased. The blued core examples I would also call a rivate purchse! Edited March 10, 2009 by Motorhead
Junger1418 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 :jumping: Thanks Micha again !!! I think you're a real specialist, so I have another question for you !!! The last one sure, you may go to work perhaps So, what's the definition of these two marks : KO and KMST ?? Berlin or Stuttgart ? The same one ?? I've lost my "latin". I've seen for "KO" lot of things !! So what's your opinion dear master ?Junger1418 :unsure:
Motorhead Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Master lol! No,I'm at home this week(6 days holliday from last year have to be spend). K.M.S.t. seems to be " K?nigliches M?nzamt Stuttgart(uwe Bretzendorfer told me that they made around 6000 1st classes-he has spend a lot of times in the archives so I think this is prooved).KO-the most common maker of all '14 Eks is still absolutely unknown! Fact is,the "Berliner M?nze" never made 1914 iron crosses!Micha
Junger1418 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 Yes, I'm sure you're Der Meister !! Well, so what's the signification of "KO" and "KMST" or "KM.st". I've seen on the web maker's list with these definition :KO = K?nigliches M?nzamt Abteilung Orden / K?nigliche Ordenskommission / Kgl. Ordenskomission, Abteilung Orden / K?nigliches M?nzamt, Berlin or Stuttgart KMST or K.M.S.T or K.M.st = Kriegs Ministerium Standesamt ? / st=Stuttgart / K?nigliche Muenzamt / K?nigliche Munzamt / Kriegsministerium Standesamt ?And the last thing, what's the "Berliner M?nze" ?Junger1418
Motorhead Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 The most lists that can be found at the internet are a bit......obscure! Wishful thinking in the best case.....! fact is-"KO" has got nothing to do with the "berliner M?nzamt"! And K.M.S.t is the "k?nigliches M?nzamt Stuttgart(according to Uwe Bretzendorfers research in the local archives).So "KO" is still absolutely unknown!Micha
Junger1418 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 :jumping: Ok Micha !! Incredible, as you know, and as you says "KO" mark is very common, the most common maker of all '14 Eks and this maker is unknown !! Here in Frankreich when you see a "K.O" mark the seller says " K?nigliche Ordenskommission " ! But as you says again in the web you can read everything ! And I don't talk about "KM" mark !!!RegardsJunger1418
Motorhead Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Well,K.M. is the 2nd class from K.M.S.t! You just have to compare the core!Micha
Junger1418 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 :rolleyes: Well, excuse me but I don't have these makers on my collection, I've to search on this forum to compare, or if you have time you can post a "KM" 2nd class and a "K.M.st" 1st class I know I'm a little painful !!! That's me, I start a topic about silver marks and now we talk about different makers !! Iron cross virus made a little crazy Junger1418
Junger1418 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 :cheeky: Waouhhhhhhhh !!! Great job Micha !!!! Thanks for all !! Beautiful pics my friend !!Why don't you make a reference book about maker's ?? Hummm ??RegardsJunger1418 :jumping:
nesredep Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Hello!Wow,very interesting tread. All the bestNesredep
Motorhead Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 A reverence book should have all the variations......Just to talk about the 1st class it would be thick as the Frankfurt telephone book! And my problem is-I want to have them all! Ask me again when I've finished my collection Micha
Junger1418 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Posted March 11, 2009 :rolleyes: Hello Micha !!WWaaaaoouuuhh !! "the Frankfurt telephone book" ?? I've to work a little !!Good luck for your hunt, man, but I've seen a part of your collection on the web (different site) and I think you're a real specialist !! If you take a pic of each one of yours.... What a beautiful book !! Not ?Well, I've found a website called "Encyclopedia of silver marks", very interesting, there is German silver marks before and after 1886 !! You can find it at : http://www.925-1000.com/Perhaps we can identify some iron cross's makers..... ??All the bestJunger1418 :catjava:
Steve campbell Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 I also know this page-Have you ever seen a 1st class "WILM"? Or a "Deschler","N" or an "A"?? So much about lists.We still can't identify the most of the EK makers......To come back the the silver content markings-the best example of an awarded piece with an "800" mark on the back is the famous "CD 800"! I've seen a lot of complete WW1 groupings including awards,documents and stuff like the dog tag or shoulderboards wich included a "CD 800" in the case together with the cardbox. In general the vaulted pieces are private purchased! My oppinion....The majority of EKs with a silver content stamp are vaulted.But not all-so....My maker list of awarded iron crosses 1st class:(All flat,no screwbacks-never!!)CD 800 FrFr W (only a few pieces known,not confirmed in a complete group)FRG H.B.G.WS (in box)WS (engraved)JWS (only a few pieces known,not confirmed in a complete group)K.A.G.KOS-WWeThere is (of course) a "grey zone" with unmarked or just with a silver content marked Eks(flat!!)Here is one of these examples-the most common "standart core"...I've gt also the vaulted variation!Micha, have you heard of an awarded mark 800v? I thought that was one. Also, I don't call it a mistake, but to differentiate between the two ways WS showed thier stamp is not really 2 different makers, just the same maker with a different variation on the mark. Couldn't you have also mentioned other maker mark variations, such as the different CD800s? I'm probaly splitting hairs here.
Motorhead Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Steve-800v in a complete line at the backplate ? Or an "800" marked Ek with a "v" or a "y" under the pin? And my list includes just the maker marks,not the different kind of stampings or Cores/frames/pins.Otherwise it would have been a bit longer micha
Steve campbell Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 I don't have one but I believe it's 800v all in one line, I assumed on the backplate.
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