Imperial Russia Imp. Russian Ribbon bars..?

[GeorgeCL]

Heres a ribbon bar I picked up a little while ago.

Shows wear and looks to be original, ie not messed with.

Could this combination order be correct.

2 st annas w/swords, St stauslas w/swords and the st george ribbon

Could it be a White Russian post 1918 set up?

made very much as the germans did..

thanks

George

[Gerd Becker]

Heres a ribbon bar I picked up a little while ago.

Shows wear and looks to be original, ie not messed with.

Could this combination order be correct.

2 st annas w/swords, St stauslas w/swords and the st george ribbon

Could it be a White Russian post 1918 set up?

made very much as the germans did..

thanks

George

I can?t help you with your questions, but its indeed very similar to the german style. Very nice ribbon-bar.

best,

Gerd

[Guest Rick Research]

How wide are each of the ribbons? If they are 15mm or 25mm (not the full size for Russian ribbons?) I'd say what you have is FOR a German, festooned with Bermont-Avalov type Baltic awards from 1919-20.

A Russian would have worn a St George FIRST, whether it was a 4th Class Cross or the Order, wouldn't he? That's another reason I'd suspect this was a German Freikorps type mounting.

Did the Tsarist forces EVER wear ribbon bars? I thought they wore full size or nothing. Years ago I came across a batch of individual ribbons including Tsarist orders and the British navy Distinguished Service Cross that from the construction and number of campaign medal ribbbons that were also in the box, I took to be French military outfitter stock that had never been used. All lonnnnnnnnng gone in pre-computer days, alas, but they were the usual Allied full width size.

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Rick,

I do not think Tsarist russia wore ribbon bars. They are 1 inch across each.

I have a couple of pics of white officers wearing bars, but only after 1918.

I also thought the St George would be first.

I was guessing this was put together by the officers wife after 1920 and he just used it as is.?

emigre wear?

Who knows

Thanks

George

Edited November 21, 2005 by georgecl

[GeorgeCL]

heres another

Naval officer 1920's China

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

<<Did the Tsarist forces EVER wear ribbon bars? I thought they wore full size or nothing. >>

<<I do not think Tsarist russia wore ribbon bars. They are 1 inch across each.>>

Will these pictures shed any light on this topic?

I am not a uniform guy. They have always been too bulky to pack right to bring home and they take up too much room in the closet I store my few old uniforms in.

However ... When I was asked last year, would I like to see an old uniform, I almost just said no. Then I thought, why not? I almost fell over when these old people pulled this one out of their closet at home. It had been hanging in one or another of their closets since the revolution, I think. There was really no thinking involved when they asked me if this was something I might like to buy. I even brought home the 19th century wooden clothes hanger it was hung on.

Chuck

[GeorgeCL]

WOW a Generals at that...

Did it come complete with decorations?

I'm not sure is there a chevron on the rt. sleeve?

I thought Chevrons were only worn after the revolution.?

Great

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

WOW a Generals at that...

Did it come complete with decorations?

I'm not sure is there a chevron on the rt. sleeve?

I thought Chevrons were only worn after the revolution.?

Great

George

* * * * *

This is exactly the way it came out of the closet, nothing added or taken off, and it is still on the same hanger.

I know next to nothing about uniforms or uniform regulations. In fact, I hope to learn something from people like you about this one. Yes, that is a chevron, and I don't know anything about that, either.

I don't offer this as proof of anything, just as something that might stimulate some enlightening comments and conversation.

Chuck

[Guest Rick Research]

The color and cut (except the floppy collar) of this are so close to 1943-54 Soviet it is creepy.

I associate the wrist chevron with White Russian formations, can't help any more than that, but like German Freikorps units of the same period, a way to distinguish those still "active" from "former members of the armed forces" wandering around in their old uniforms but not enrolled in fighting units. Of course, continued wear of the shoulder boards would have clarified THAT point as well!

[Chuck In Oregon]

You know, White Russian wouldn't be out of the question. Most Georgians believe that Georgia, not the Crimea, was the last major stronghold of White Russian resistance. We know that there was significant White resistance in the Northern Caucasus until at least 1923, even though Tbilisi itself fell in 1921. In fact, I have an attributed presentation shaska related to that resistance. Even though they are unrelated, I should probably display the uniform and that shaska together. As it is now, I don't display either.

Chuck

[GeorgeCL]

MY Gosh Chuck,

Send them to me..

I'll get them displayed

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

MY Gosh Chuck,

Send them to me..

I'll get them displayed

George

* * * * *

Yes, it's disgraceful, I admit it. I have 5-6 uniforms or tunics, at least one of which is all but unknown in the west (OKA), and I don't display any of them. As for shaskas and swords, I've got 6-8 of them just lying around or standing in corners, including the presentation example to an officer in the Dagestani Irregular Cavalry who later became a famous White leader. Don't hate me.

What I really need to do is concentrate on my own areas of particular interest and trade or sell the rest. One of these days ...

Chuck