Austria-Hungary Austrian-German medalbar

[Roman Slivin]

Please any opinions are welcomed!

Regards,

Roman

[Roman Slivin]

:cheers:

[Ulsterman]

You know-looking at it my head says' "OK", but my heart says there's something not quite right.

......perhaps it's the Sudenten at the end. Ostensibly a bar to a reserve Doctor type?

[Paul R]

You know-looking at it my head says' "OK", but my heart says there's something not quite right.

......perhaps it's the Sudenten at the end. Ostensibly a bar to a reserve Doctor type?

I am surprised that an Austrian would not have been around for the Austrian Annexation...

[TacHel]

I can see an Austrian NAZI getting this medal...

[Ulsterman]

Well, the bar obviously dates from 1940, as the ostensible Austrian Doctor would have had to apply for his HKx, which I think was handed out only for a few months in 1939-40 upon application. The Sudentenland medal (awarded for events that occurred six months AFTER the March 1938 annexation of Austria) was awarded in 1939-40 (maybe until 1941? I can't remember the cut off date).

It is odd that there is no Military Merit Cross, no red cross medal and no Austrian WW1 war medal.

That penultimate medal gives me more pause too. The German nobility-only Knight's Marian cross I thought was given for hospital work in the Orders' hospitals.

But whoever he ostensibly was, there are no LS medals (and he'd have had the time in certainly, given the 1912/13 mobilization cross and the Jubilee medal on military ribbon, so maybe if this is legit, it was put together AFTER the suspension of Wehrmacht LS awards in 1939 (or is it 1940?).

So "wrong" it's probably right, because the story, sort of, seems to ring true.

RR-what thinkest thee hereupon?

Edited May 1, 2009 by Ulsterman

[Roman Slivin]

Well, the bar obviously dates from 1940, as the ostensible Austrian Doctor would have had to apply for his HKx, which I think was handed out only for a few months in 1939-40 upon application. The Sudentenland medal (awarded for events that occurred six months AFTER the March 1938 annexation of Austria) was awarded in 1939-40 (maybe until 1941? I can't remember the cut off date).

It is odd that there is no Military Merit Cross, no red cross medal and no Austrian WW1 war medal.

That penultimate medal gives me more pause too. What is that?

But whoever he ostensibly was, there are no LS medals (and he'd have had the time in certainly, given the 1912/13 mobilization cross and the Jubilee medal on military ribbon, so maybe if this is legit, it was put together AFTER the suspension of Wehrmacht LS awards in 1939 (or is it 1940?).

So "wrong" it's probably right, because the story, sort of, seems to ring true.

RR-what thinkest thee hereupon?

Excuse, but I do not understand why you think, what it is the doctor?

[Naxos]

I think it is good. The Sudedenland Medaille was also awarded later to military personnel participating in the occupation of the remnants of Czechoslovakia on March 15, 1939.

For instance, the 4. Panzerdivision was created in 1938 (finished creation in November 38) Most of the personnel in the 12. Sch?tzen-Regiment were Austrians. Their first deployment was to occupy the rest of Czechoslovakia.

[Ulsterman]

Excuse, but I do not understand why you think, what it is the doctor?

Because I thought the black knights' Mariancross was only for hospital work.

But maybe it was for donations and management services as well.

I am no Austrian expert, but others' here know more than I.

[Roman Slivin]

The main condition - German nobility.

It could work some time in hospital, helping free of charge.

But to be the professional doctor not to be obligatory.

As it was possible to offer money.

I too not the expert...

[Guest Rick Research]

I had always thought that the Marianer Crosses were given only to nobles-- and Catholic nobles, at that. Then I discovered groups with the Prussian St. John (very definitely Protestant) AND the Marianer and...

well, among Eric Ludvigsen's library that ahs passed to me is a paperback 1901 directory of Marianer recipients....

Per "Paragraph 5 of the statutes" (not included) were MANY awards

to commoners-- factory owners, office employee types of the Order itself, professors, banking/accounting types--

so it is not possible to GUESS what a recipient actually was.

Apparently "Paragraph 5" allowed what amounted to "financial or other" support to get one of these.

In a few cases I've been trying to narrow down, the Marianerkreuz was given to Bavarian officers during the World War who could not possibly have been across the border doing hospital volunteer work--so MUST have been what amounted to "Donats" in the Vatican and British versions of the Order of Saint John. I suspect the Grand Master also simply handed them out as gifts to anybody he felt like giving one to, as a semi-sovereign with that power.

So while the vast majority were, at least, noblemen, plain old Schmidts and M?llers also crept in.

If I recall correctly, the entire property and assets of the High & German Order were sequestered after the war, leading to vast and lengthy legal proceedings. I recall that Archduke Eugen mananged to win in the end, but do not think there were ever any awards of the Marianer between the wars, at least, given Austria's proscription on all thinks noble. While within the purview of the Hapsburgs, they had basically handed over administration of the Order as a self-governing entity under a spare Archduke well before the war, so doesn't seem likely that it would or could realistically have been awarded after 1918.