Flammenwerfer! Flames, skulls and stuff

[bob lembke]

Without digging out my father's Militaer=Pass, from memory he was a member of II. Garde=Pionier=Ersatz=Bataillon three times, for a total of almost a year, first being trained there, but later training other Flamm=Pioniere, as his Pass shows that after his worst wound at Verdun he was medically declared "fit for combat, but not Flammenwerfer", and was sent back to II. G=E=P=B, probably to train recruits.

I actually have images of about 30 men from the Replacement Battalion (one photo is a group photo that is a PC that his buddies sent him when he was away from the unit), including a very good one of my father, in his best uniform, when he was a member of this unit but probably after he had been at the front with the flame regiment, and none of the images show any of the men of II. G=P=E=B wearing a Totenkopf, including my father. You would think that my father, having already fought at the front with the flame regiment, and probably possessing one or more of the patches, would have worn it on his best uniform on a home visit, if it was allowed.

Bob Lembke

[Robin Lumsden]

Thomas.

Thanks for your thoughts.............and all the time you have spent researching this. It is much appreciated.

Bob.

Thanks again.

[Robin Lumsden]

This is maybe an off-the-wall thought..............but was there a Reichswehr unit that carried on the 'traditions' of the GRPR?

Just as the Reichswehr KR 5 carried the traditions of the Leibhusaren?

[Thomas W]

Robin, the 1st Company of the Reichswehr formation (Preussisches) Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 3, garrisoned in Küstrin, was the Traditions Unit of the Garde-Pionier-Bataillon and the Garde-Reserve-Pionier-Regiment.

According to the flamethrower regiment's death book, after the war Generalmajor Haenichen, President of the German Pioneers Association, tried to have the 1st Company of (Preussisches) Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 3 awarded a Totenkopf sleeve badge but was told by the Minister of Defense that this was not possible. It could be--of course--that some men of the Traditions Unit awarded themselves their own badge anyway.

Here's a member of (Preussisches) Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 3.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Thomas W

[Robin Lumsden]

Robin, the 1st Company of the Reichswehr formation (Preussisches) Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 3, garrisoned in Küstrin, was the Traditions Unit of the Garde-Pionier-Bataillon and the Garde-Reserve-Pionier-Regiment.

According to the flamethrower regiment's death book, after the war Generalmajor Haenichen, President of the German Pioneers Association, tried to have the 1st Company of (Preussisches) Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 3 awarded a Totenkopf sleeve badge but was told by the Minister of Defense that this was not possible. It could be--of course--that some men of the Traditions Unit awarded themselves their own badge anyway.

Here's a member of (Preussisches) Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 3.

Thanks again, Thomas.

I wondered if the black TK could be some sort of 'traditions' badge from the Reichswehr.

Just another possibility...............which you've kindly answered as above.

:cheers:

[Sergeant 08]

Ready? Fire!

Edited September 5, 2009 by Sergeant 08

[Thomas W]

Here you go, Sergeant 08. Doppelklief M.1915, late model. Two late-model Kleif M.1915 connected by a 1.5m hose and a 3m hose to a telescoping Grosse Strahlrohr M.1914, which was 1.75m long when extended. The Doppelkleiftrupp was usually made up of seven men: Lance operator (Strahlrohrführer), assistant (Hilfsmann), first Kleif carrier (Kleifträger), assistant, second Kleif carrier, assistant, and squad leader (Truppführer). The Doppelkleif was used in shell holes and saps to cover the advance of small-flamethrower squads, and it was used in trenches to overcome barricades.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Thomas W

[Sergeant 08]

Here you go, Sergeant 08. Doppelklief M.1915, late model. Two late-model Kleif M.1915 connected by a 1.5m hose and a 3m hose to a telescoping Grosse Strahlrohr M.1914, which was 1.75m long when extended. The Doppelkleiftrupp was usually made up of seven men: Lance operator (Strahlrohrführer), assistant (Hilfsmann), first Kleif carrier (Kleifträger), assistant, second Kleif carrier, assistant, and squad leader (Truppführer). The Doppelkleif was used in shell holes and saps to cover the advance of small-flamethrower squads, and it was used in trenches to overcome barricades.

Thomas! If it has a flame, you are the expert!

PS: But I will learn!

Edited September 5, 2009 by Sergeant 08

[Thomas W]

Thomas! If it has a flame, you are the expert!

PS: But I will learn!

Google the book title German Flamethrower Pioneers of World War I. It has everything you need to know, including all models of German flamethrowers, tactics, all units, uniforms, insignia, dates, and battles.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Thomas W

[Sergeant 08]

Google the book title German Flamethrower Pioneers of World War I. It has everything you need to know, including all models of German flamethrowers, tactics, all units, uniforms, insignia, dates, and battles.

It is my next step...

[Thomas W]

Sergeant 08, here is the same late-model Doppelkleif M.1915 in your photo. In this case the lance is the 1.5m grosse Strahlrohr M.1914 instead of the telescoping 1.75m grosse Strahlrohr M.1914.

In the background are two late-model Kleif M.1915 with the 1.2m kleine Strahlrohr M.1914.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Thomas W

[Thomas W]

And here is a full seven-man squad for the late-model Dopplekleif M.1915. The eighth man is probably an instructor.

[Robin Lumsden]

Here's a photo currently on eBay.................cuff badges just about visible.

[Thomas W]

From my collection:

A Wehrwolf! Eeeeek! Where are my silver bullets?!

[Thomas W]

And two more from my collection:

Garde-Reserve-Pionier-Regiment at Stenay after July of 1916. Note the fellow on the right:

[Thomas W]

And here's the same man as in the last photo, this time photographed at Stenay on August 18, 1916. This is a very unusual image of flamethrower pioneers, because both are posing with their hands behind their backs. They were awarded the Totenkopf badges on July 28, 1916, so they may not have received them yet. As Robin noted before, flamethrower pioneers went through some very amusing contortions to display their sleeve badges to the photographer. The fellow on the left is a former member of the Fliegertruppen, who transferred into the flamethrower regiment in 1916.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Thomas W

[Sergeant 08]

From my collection:

A Wehrwolf! Eeeeek! Where are my silver bullets?!

This is a really interesting photo for every Wehrwolf collector! The man had two membership badges. Wehrwolf (first pattern badge) and Stahlhelm! I think it must be one of the early photos, because later it was not allowed to be member in both organizations (at the same time).

Edited September 11, 2009 by Sergeant 08

[Thomas W]

Thanks for the information! I didn't know that. There's no date on the photo. Here's the writing on the back:

[Sergeant 08]

Both badges!

Edited September 11, 2009 by Sergeant 08

[Thomas W]

Very nice, Sergeant08. Are you a collector?

By the way, here's a sad story to make you cry. I bought this card on eBay, and it was lost even though it was sent from Germany by registered airmail. It arrived in New York on July 29 and disappeared. Nobody can explain what happened to it. I can't think about it too much, because it makes me want to pull out all my hair. Oh, well. My advice to everyone: DON'T USE THE POSTAL SERVICE. ALWAYS USE FEDEX, DHL, OR UPS.

[Chip]

Thomas,

Yes, what a shame to lose this photo! I think everyone has had this happen. The same thing happened to me with a lot of rare shoulder straps. They made it to the States and then disappeared.

Is this patch being worn on the old Dunkelblau uniform or the M15 Friedensuniform? It is difficult to tell, but given the pre-war style overcoat, it may be an early uniform as well. I have never seen this insignia being worn on the old Bunterock.

Chip

Edited September 11, 2009 by Chip

[Sergeant 08]

Very nice, Sergeant08. Are you a collector?

By the way, here's a sad story to make you cry. I bought this card on eBay, and it was lost even though it was sent from Germany by registered airmail. It arrived in New York on July 29 and disappeared. Nobody can explain what happened to it. I can't think about it too much, because it makes me want to pull out all my hair. Oh, well. My advice to everyone: DON'T USE THE POSTAL SERVICE. ALWAYS USE FEDEX, DHL, OR UPS.

Thomas! Yes, I'm a collector of skull stuff!

That is a terrible story. But it was not the only shipment problem. I had similar shipment problems from USA to Europe.

Btw, here is a similar photo like your's, that I have seen on ebay...

Edited September 11, 2009 by Sergeant 08

[Thomas W]

Chip, I think that's the Dunkelblau. I have several photos of flamethrower pioneers taken by the same photographer, Otto Hoeffke, using the same silver vase as a prop.

This kid was a flamethrower pioneer of Sturmbataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr). He's got the sleeve badge on his Dunkelblau.

[Thomas W]

Hi, Sergeant08! Thanks for posting that photo! Yes, it's mine.

I have to leave to go shopping right now, but would you like the Wehrwolf photo I have? Maybe we can make a trade for something.

Send me a private message if you are interested.

[Sergeant 08]

Hi, Sergeant08! Thanks for posting that photo! Yes, it's mine.

I have to leave to go shopping right now, but would you like the Wehrwolf photo I have? Maybe we can make a trade for something.

Send me a private message if you are interested.

PM sent!