Romania The Romanian Securitate

[Greg Collins]

Another problem when collecting Romanian items- and this is true of all Romanian items from 1947-1989- is that there is pitifully little reference available. I recently acquired Rainier Schmitt's book and, while it's a pretty good reference on what's available in orders and medals, it does not get to the depth that, say, Ralph Pickard's "Stasi Memorabilia" or McDaniel and Schmitt's book "Comprehensive Guide to Soviet Orders and Medals" does. Both give a good foundation in discovering fakes in their respective catagories. Also, the lack of a numbering system, the lack of mint marks, and the apparent lack of standardization doesn't help, either. Common sense and comparison against a known "standard" may be the rule of the day at this point.

Though frustrating at times, I will say that this particular pursuit continues to be quite motivating and I am thorougly enjoying it.

[Greg Collins]

I don't own this item, but it was offered to me recently. As I don't collect uniforms because, frankly, I just don't have the room to do so, I turned it down. I did, however, make an offer for the ribbon bar- we'll see how that goes. Anyway, it was offered as a Militia uniform. Appears to be either charcoal gray or navy; dark red stripe on the pants and dark red piping on the cuffs; same colour collar tabs; dark red epaulets trimmed in blue. I'll get to the ribbons on the next post. I did have to lighten the image to show detail.

[Greg Collins]

Now to the ribbon bar, which is impressive. I won't bother to name all the awards as we all know most (if not all) of them already. The one foreign award is at the last place- the "30 Years of the Bulgarian Peoples' Army" commemorative medal. The awards I'm concerned with are the Orders of Military Merit (in places 1,2 and 5), the Medals of Military Merit ( in places 11 and 12), the Order for Distinguished Services in Defense of the Social Order and the Country - 3rd Class (in place 4) and the Defense of the Country medal (in place 13). From these ribbons, would it be correct to deduct that this individual was:

- very possibly a Colonel or General (over 25 years of service showing), and may have been in the regular Army (unless Military Merit orders and medals were given to the Ministry of Internal Affairs personnel).

- and a member of the Securitate (award #4).

Also, what organizations were awarded the Defense of the Country (De straj? Patriei) medal? Thanks for the help!

Edited June 18, 2009 by Greg Collins

[Greg Collins]

Picked up a couple Ministry of Internal Affairs badges... the badge on the right, an un-numbered pin back, is for an amateur artistic competition (probably music) and, based on the overall look of the badge, I would say from the RSR period. The badge on the left is for Culural Work and is of the stick-pin type. It looks to be 3-piece construction (the torch, the circular band bearing the type, and the base), and is numbered on the back- 1147. I believe it is of the RPR period. Both bear the "MAI" legend.

[Greg Collins]

And the back of the badge "For Cultural Work".

[Kev in Deva]

The pin pictured under probably falls into a similar category, as the amateur artistic competition one

I was interested in buying it, but the guy was selling it as part of a display board with a load of other pins.

This one is defiantly R.P.R. Period.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Greg

with regards the medal bar on the uniform, one thing that strikes me,

is the ribbons for the Order Military Merit being out of sequence.

I add some of my bars for comparison, look at number 4 from the top

for an example of what I mean with regards the Order of Military Merit.

I find the shoulder boards to be rather plain and lacking any gilt embroidery for somebody who was

supposedly a high ranker.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Greg Collins]

Kevin,

With regards to the pin image you sent, I bid on one just like it and got beat out. I believe it's for a similar competition hosted by the Army. A great looking badge!

With respect to the ribbon bar (and I have 3 pictured in another thread in this section); it seems to me that the Romanian's tended to group ribbons according to "class" first, and then where the ribbon ranked on a chart. In other words (and using the example I posted), a 1st and 2nd Class Military Merit Order is pictured before a 3rd Class Tudor and a 3rd Class Distinguished Services in Defense of the Social Order and the Country BUT, because these are higher level awards, the 3rd Class Military Merit follows and then comes the 4th Class Star of Romania and etc.. This seems to be the case in most Romanian bars I've seen, though there have been exceptions that I just can not figure out. I hope I've explained this in a way that makes sense.

By the way, if you ever want to part with the bar that's 5th from the top, please let me know.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Greg Collins

[Greg Collins]

Kevin,

Apparently, I skipped over one of your points regarding the shoulderboards. Insofar as I can determine, the Militia during the RPR period did not use brocade (gilt) on the shoulderboards (epaulets). They did follow the basic Soviet system but, whereas the branch colour is the background upon which the brocade is applied in the Soviet system- and shows through as "stripes" along the length of the epaulet (one for company grade, two for field grade), the RSR Militia actually applied the stripe itself to the epaulet. So, in the Romanian system of the time, a locotenant-major would have a blue epaulet, with an applied thin dark red stripe, and three small metal stars attached. I've actually seen a pair of these. Did the RPR Militia go to two thin stripes for field grade? I haven't seen these, but it would make sense. Now, the broad dark red "covering" on the uniform pictured- if logic is applied based on the other grades, this could be a general's set of epaulets. The stars could have been removed to avoid staining during long storage. OR, the whole thing could be fake.

[Carol I]

Also, what organizations were awarded the Defense of the Country (De straj? Patriei) medal? Thanks for the help!

I would translate De Strajă Patriei as Guarding the Homeland. I have found some references to this medal as an award for border guard troops.

Defense of the Homeland would better be suited as the translation for Apărarea Patriei which was an order instituted in 1949.

[Carol I]

Apparently, I skipped over one of your points regarding the shoulderboards. Insofar as I can determine, the Militia during the RPR period did not use brocade (gilt) on the shoulderboards (epaulets). They did follow the basic Soviet system but, whereas the branch colour is the background upon which the brocade is applied in the Soviet system- and shows through as "stripes" along the length of the epaulet (one for company grade, two for field grade), the RSR Militia actually applied the stripe itself to the epaulet. So, in the Romanian system of the time, a locotenant-major would have a blue epaulet, with an applied thin dark red stripe, and three small metal stars attached. I've actually seen a pair of these. Did the RPR Militia go to two thin stripes for field grade? I haven't seen these, but it would make sense. Now, the broad dark red "covering" on the uniform pictured- if logic is applied based on the other grades, this could be a general's set of epaulets. The stars could have been removed to avoid staining during long storage. OR, the whole thing could be fake.

Greg, I also have some concerns regarding the uniform. I seem to remember the Militia unifoms as somewhat lighter in colour, but I have to admit that it's about 20 years since I've seen one.

Regarding the shoulderboards, the ones on the uniform look like those of a lower grade NCO. As far as I can remember, the officers had shoulderboards similar to those of the army.

There is actually a Police Museum in Romania with uniforms from all the periods. You could try to contact it for more informations regarding the uniforms. I have found on the net its coordinates. Address: Muzeul Naţional al Poliţiei Rom?ne, Calea Domnească nr. 187, Targoviste, Romania, Phone: +40-245-614060.

[Greg Collins]

I've enclosed some images of shoulderboards I've found. The first is of a Militia Warrent Officer of the early RPR period. Note here that there is no dark red colour at all- just the blue background.

The second pair is of a Militia Locotenant- Major, which I've already described in an earlier post. Also early RPR.

The last pair is from the RSR period and is for a Major. Now we can see a more direct Soviet influence in the use of brocade/background colour.

With regard to the colour of the uniform, it appears that the image that was sent to me was from the "dark hole of Calcutta"- I lightened it as I was able, but there was little to work with in that image. Under good lighting, the uniform may well appear lighter.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Greg Collins

[Carol I]

The last pair I recognise, the other ones not. Besides, as far as I know, the chevrons were used only for technical personnel, at least in the later years.

By the way, surfing the net, I have stumbled upon the text of the 1969 law regarding the organisation and functioning of Romanian police. You may find it useful, even though it is in Romanian.

[Greg Collins]

This is precisely where a good, illustrated book of the period 1947-1989 would be so damned helpful.

Thanks for the link!

[Carol I]

Greg, I have stumbled upon this (blurred) photo of a pair of old shoulder boards for an NCO of Militie. As you can see, they are quite similar to the ones on the uniform you posted (without the metal insignia, of course).

[Greg Collins]

Absolutely! And I can easily see why and how the metal could have been removed for storage. Shoulder board under is exactly the same as those on the uniform. Nice Plutonier Major boards, even if they are blurred.

So, I guess we can assume the period is RSR?

[Carol I]

So, I guess we can assume the period is RSR?

No period was mentioned in the relation to the item, as fas as I remember.

[Greg Collins]

I realize no time period was mentioned to this point- that was, more or less, just me thinking. Seems the shoulderboards you showed, which I agree are the same as the shoulderboards featured on the uniform image I showed, seem to relate to the third pair of boards in post #37 as far as type and time. They are RSR. So, taking all that into account, I believe I'm safe in saying that the uniform is a Militia uniform from the RSR period.

Also have been thinking of the ribbon bar... the highest ribbon that would indicate service time is the Order of Military Merit 1st Class (25 years). The Order for the Defense of the Social Order and Country 3rd Class and the Protector of the Fatherland could both be awarded to Sergeants and up. Could it be possible that we're looking at the ribbon bar of a career top Sergeant? I know that in the US forces it is not uncommon to see a Sergeant Major or Master Chief's ribbons looking considerably more impressive than, say, a Colonel or Navy Captain's. Would this have also been true in the Romanian services of that time?

[Greg Collins]

Recently came by the RSR document for the Order for Distinguished Services in Defense of the Social Order and the Country - 3rd Class (Ordinul "Pentru servicii deosebite aduse ?n ap?rarea or?nduirii sociale ?i de stat"). It was awarded August 18, 1959 by Ion Georghe Maurer (President 1958-1961) to Comrade Major Ioan Tacaks. Unfortunately, the medal (red star with large RSR seal; 5 side suspension; blue ribbon with three narrow red stripes at both sides) was not included so I'm still looking for one. Am happy to have the document as I've never seen one before. The paper is "pinkish" in colour. The signatures appear to be stamped. I can't identify the Secretary's name and would appreciate it if someone could tell me. Thanks!

Edited June 26, 2009 by Greg Collins

[Greg Collins]

Close-ups of the "signatures"...

[Carol I]

Comrade Major Ioan Tacake

'Tacake' does not sound right. The last name might be "Tacaks".

I can't identify the Secretary's name and would appreciate it if someone could tell me.

Might be Gheorghe Stoica.

[Greg Collins]

Absolutely right, it is "Tacaks" and I've edited the post to show this correction. Also, thanks for the name of the Secretary.

A friend has gone into Bucharest this week so, hopefully, he'll be able to find a medal to go with the document.

[Greg Collins]

Through research and the help I've received here, I'm fairly up on the RSR Militia uniform- thanks to all. Now, does anyone have a link, image or example of uniforms of the Security Troops?

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Greg,

this Black & White picture shows members of the Romanian Security troops.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Greg Collins]

Thanks, Kevin! I'm looking at their cap emblem and what I'm seeing is a metal Romanian seal (no oval backing) on possily a material backing. Is that correct? Also, I believe their piping colour was a more or less royal blue... what colour are the uniforms? Are the uniforms basically the same as the uniforms for the army but with their distintive insignia and piping colour?