Order of the Million Elephants

[alex82]

Hello

Can anyone post good pictures of the Order of the Million Elephants (front and back)? I found it so hard to tell real from fake ones. The OMSA site have only the medal front. I think there are a lot of replicas of this wonderful medal.

Or maybe someone have more knowledge to tell real from fake?

I found this one for example but i have no idea if its replica or not...

thank you for your help

a l e x

[Paul L Murphy]

That looks fine. There are not that many fakes but there are many differing quality of manufacture since this was produced both locally and in France.

[Hugh]

Don't have any photos handy, but this piece is very similar to my Commander's grade, bought new from Arthus-Bertrand in Paris in the '80's.

Hugh

[alex82]

interesting, i thought most of the medals on ebay, for example, are replica.

for instance this one, looks alike the one I posted above:

http://cgi.ebay.com/French-Indo-China-Meda...p3286.m20.l1116

the seller describes the medal as reproduction - reproduction and fake is the same thing isen't it?

[Paul L Murphy]

Reproduction = fake. However his piece lacks the quality of yours, especially around the suspender and the jewels in the bottom tier of the crown. In addition the detailing around the elephants looks "soft" for want of a better expression. Also, the reverse does not appear to be flat, it seems to have a partial mirror image which is something I have never seen on a genuine piece.

[922F]

As Paul says, many different types or styles exist for this order. Quality ranges from the sublime to shop 1 class! Bertrand will still make insignia with about the same quality as Alex's piece for a price. Nowadays, however, the enamel may be replaced with resin.

Jeff Jacob's book, Ed Emmering's research, and John Sylvester's works list 3-4 French and several Lao or Viet manufacturers. French colonial related websites also illustrate insignia and provide additional information. Some Lao-made pieces appear to be rubberized pot metal with painted 'enamel'. John had an old likely Lao-made commander badge with very well fashioned metal work and with a contured reverse. That is, it looked like the maker had a relief badge matrix and delicately hammered a thin silver plate over that die. That particular piece had a small rectangular plate with the Lao or Viet maker's name attached. Given that knight [at least] badges are reasonably available, hard to understand why make a repo unless one had the dies in hand.

[alex82]

thank you again! I think I post some better pictures here maybe they can help someone out, not buying a fake, who is searching for this medal…

a l e x

[alex82]

front…

[alex82]

and the reverse…

[Adam Phayamouk]

Could someone observe these photos and determine if this medal is real or fake for me?

* I believe this medal is an officer grade because the leaves are green and not gold.

* Is the back of the medal supposed to be a silver color instead of a gold-like color?

* Are the tusks supposed to be cut out? It appears dissimilar to other medals

Any information would be greatly appreciated

Thank you very much.

- Adam

http://i.ebayimg.com/22/!BZEuNCQ!2k~$(KGrHgoH-EQEjlLlwfrpBKk5n,pbs!~~_3.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/10/!BZEuOnwBmk~$(KGrHgoH-CMEjlLl)s+(BKk5nsrhWw~~_3.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/14/!BZEuPu!CGk~$(KGrHgoH-EIEjlLlecF0BKk5n3UD2!~~_3.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/13/!BZEuQw!BGk~$(KGrHgoH-CsEjlLltsWbBKk5oFHH+!~~_3.JPG

[922F]

Could someone observe these photos and determine if this medal is real or fake for me?

* I believe this medal is an officer grade because the leaves are green and not gold.

* Is the back of the medal supposed to be a silver color instead of a gold-like color?

* Are the tusks supposed to be cut out? It appears dissimilar to other medals

Any information would be greatly appreciated

Thank you very much.

- Adam

http://i.ebayimg.com...QEjlLlwfrpBKk5n,pbs!~~_3.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com...5nsrhWw~~_3.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com...5n3UD2!~~_3.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com...5oFHH+!~~_3.JPG

Hi Adam,

To the best of my knowledge, all badges are gilt. Some made of silver were poorly gilded and may appear to be just silver. In the angles and 'crannies' of this piece there appears to be traces of gilding. Exact enamel colors and placement [i.e. on the leaves] are subject to the manufacturer's pattern but most major makers stuck to identifiable general formats in this respect. On this one, do you see any manufacturer marks? [i do not.] It looks like the suspension ball was applied separately and not cast as part of the badge--that may be a good sign. The ribbon ring is not soldiered together which may indicate that it's a replacement or that this a a cheaply made, perhaps modern, piece. Some old French-made pieces and some Southeast Asian made ones have many of the details "cut-out" including tusks and leaf edges. The ribbon may be a replacement or not--it looks more crude than French ribbon, even modern made French ribbon.

This equivocal answer may not be of much use to ooyu --I'd think you would have to see the piece in hand to make a more accurate estimation!

[ThaiDave]

Adam,

This is an old post, so you've probably already discovered more on these. This is Chevalier / Knight class - having a rosette on the ribbon is the differentator to make the Officer class. The badges for both classes are the same.

This medal was made for issued for nearly 85 years and manufactured by a plethora of manufactures both in France and elsewhere. So there is much variety in the medals over time and manufacturers. The differences observed with the leaves, tusks, etc, are manufacturer variations. Very early examples were silver, and later gilded silver or bronze. You example appears to be make by Bacqueville, if that is the correct box for it.

In terms of "copies", I'm aware of a recently made reproduction, made in Thailand and sold in the US (plus on ebay). And also I suspect another version made in Vietnam.

For several examples, see: www.indochinamedals.com/laos/ls01_order_of_the_million_elephants_and_the_white_parasol.html

Edited November 27, 2011 by ThaiDave